1st Run Robot Upgrade Parts?

[j_fogle]

I have a first run Robot & I may want to upgrade.

 

Does anybody have any info on what parts of existing Robots (CPU, tailpiece, bridge, powerheads, etc.) will be replaced in an upgrade to Dark Fire tuning specs?

[niemepet]

Yesterday I asked this from Gibson Support Europe. They answered very quickly that we have to wait about a month. Then we get more official information.

[nolongermike@gibson]

No official word yet, because all focus is on Dark Fire releasing at the moment, but the plan is to make an affordable upgrade kit for original Robot models. We'll post details as soon as we have them. I think its pretty cool that an upgrade path is being offered. It won't give you all of the tonal features from the new pickups, etc, but it will get you caught up with the Robotics on the guitar, and that's pretty cool.

 

I have a first run Robot & I may want to upgrade.

 

Does anybody have any info on what parts of existing Robots (CPU' date=' tailpiece, bridge, powerheads, etc.) will be replaced in an upgrade to Dark Fire tuning specs?[/quote']

[niemepet]

It won't give you all of the tonal features from the new pickups' date=' etc, but it will get you caught up with the Robotics on the guitar, and that's pretty cool.

[/quote']

Sad to hear, because I think that increasing tonal range is the main reason to upgrade. I think everybody are selling the 1st gen away, if this is true. As a "Gibson Robot prototype investor" (like Gibson called the 1st run buyers), I feel a little bit betrayed.

[j_fogle]

Sad to hear' date=' because I think that increasing tonal range is the main reason to upgrade. I think everybody are selling the 1st gen away, if this is true. As a "Gibson Robot prototype investor" (like Gibson called the 1st run buyers), I feel a little bit betrayed.

 

[/quote']

 

 

No way man... don't feel betrayed.

 

I think you made a good purchase. Powered, computerized tuning is no gimmick. This technology will probably be optional on most new electrics (guitars; other instruments??) in the near future. Public interest in reliable, noninvasive self-tuning technology originated with the 1st run Gibson Robots. The tonal options from Dark Fire's pickups are what makes the Dark Fire unique. Since this new technology arises out of a different part of the guitar, the new pickups shouldn't be expected as part of the tuning system's upgrade.

 

Mike (thanks for responding so fast, by the way), I agree with your comment that it's pretty cool that Gibson is offering tuning upgrades to existing Robot Guitars. I was so pleased when I read that. It's in Gibson's best interest to keep advanced systems of this kind up-to-date at a relatively low cost to the customer, so, at this time, I'm not concerned with the price of any upgrades to my Robot's tuning system.

 

The first generation robotics offered by Gibson are an immense improvement over no robotics at all. Switching between tunings within 15 seconds is pretty awesome. Just imagine the 1-second tuning that the Dark Fire press release alleges. Being able to switch tunings in the middle of a song? Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

 

However, it will be interesting to see how physically encompassing an improvement from first generation to second generation tuning tech will be on existing Robots. Hopefully the swap out will not threaten to alter the permanent cosmetic appearance of these guitars. It would be ideal if owners or authorized dealers could perform actual labor of the upgrade themselves. The thought of having one of my best guitars shipped to the manufacturer and back sounds scary. Dark Fire included, if upgrading the tuning technology on the Robots seems too risky or if keeping a Robot model up-to-date means cosmetically altering it forever, this may turn certain customers away from investing in these technologically-enhanced guitars (especially the 1st run models).

[niemepet]

Well, I have seen/heard the Gibson marketing speech about Robot on last December and I have very much same thoughts than this gentleman:

 

"The company made it very clear at the time that the guitar was a prototype, and that anyone that purchased the product would be investing money in the revised model to be released at a later date."

(Source: http://www.strumstrum.com/2008/11/08/gibson-announces-the-robot-2-dark-fire/)

 

I expect that investment brings something more than the faster tuning.

 

Also, I think that many Robot owners throw the Robot in to the trash can (because no one is buying Robot without full upgrade, which includes tonal increase) and buy a Dark Fire. And what I'm doing with the Robot if I have a Dark Fire?!?!?

 

Just pointing a few weakness of the upgrade... I hope you see my point of view about being "betrayed".

[elantric]

I think its pure speculation regarding what the final capabilities of this 1st gen robot guitar Upgrade kit does or doesn't provide.

 

Who knows - it may actually include all the Dark Fire functions and include the latest RIP box too.

 

FWIW - I heard from a dealer the upgrade would be under $500 , and he told me he was told it would have all the Dark Fire functions.

 

EDIT: April , 2009 - Upgrade would be Tuners only. no schedule on possible availability.

[niemepet]

Yes, it's pure speculation (see my first post to this thread)

 

One idea came to my mind. It would be really nice if Gibson provide two upgrade package - one with the tuning system (cheap) and one where is all in the package (inc. mics, cost a little bit more)

[Steveyp]

Hi all,

Newbie to the site here and I have a question that may be relevant to others also. I purchased my first run Robot guitar second hand from the internet and being in the UK I am unable to register with Gibson. I was wandering if the offer of an upgrade to the original Robot at close to cost price would extend to people like me or only those registered as original owners. By the way my guitar was originally purchased in the US while the original owner was on a business trip.

[j_fogle]

Well' date=' I have seen/heard the Gibson marketing speech about Robot on last December and I have very much same thoughts than this gentleman:

 

"The company made it very clear at the time that the guitar was a prototype, and that anyone that purchased the product would be [b']investing[/b] money in the revised model to be released at a later date."

(Source: http://www.strumstrum.com/2008/11/08/gibson-announces-the-robot-2-dark-fire/)

 

I expect that investment brings something more than the faster tuning.

 

Also, I think that many Robot owners throw the Robot in to the trash can (because no one is buying Robot without full upgrade, which includes tonal increase) and buy a Dark Fire. And what I'm doing with the Robot if I have a Dark Fire?!?!?

 

Just pointing a few weakness of the upgrade... I hope you see my point of view about being "betrayed".

 

Oh wow - I didn't realize the 1st generation Robots were marketed this way. I totally understand your point of view now man.

You also make a good point about 1st generation "investors" and the Dark Fire. I already bought a really nice Les Paul last year... I'd be pretty sad if I had to shell out all of that extra money on another Les Paul just to get the awesome pickups (then again, the Dark Fire is red instead of blue and I have been known to purchase multiple copies of the same guitar but in different colors).

Regardless, (and in the spirit of my original post) I would really hate it if Gibson kept my original parts subject to my Robot's upgrade. I feel that would devalue my long-term investment drastically, at the expense of saving a few dollars in the short-term.

 

It would be a wise business move for Gibson to release substantial information on upgrading the 1st-generation Robots prior to the Dark Fire's launch. Withholding info is sometimes a good thing, as it can create positive buzz around a product, but the situation surrounding Gibson's upgrade of 1st generation Robots is a matter of product support. Without the official facts, all we can do is speculate, and unfortunately this sort of speculation creates negative publicity for the Dark Fire during this crucial time. This is especially true on the internet, where rumors and hearsay can fill the void of missing information and damage a product or company's reputation quite quickly.

 

Leaving 1st generation Robot purchasers in the “dark” as to how the company will handle the upgrade of their guitars discourages previous customers from becoming repeat customers. The way Gibson chooses to treat these individuals may be seen as an example of how it may treat future customers, especially those who take a risk by purchasing guitars equipped with experimental 1st generation technology. If the company offers a generous update to those who own 1st generation Robots, this gesture will create lots of positive publicity for Gibson. But, if 1st generation owners and/or potential Dark Fire purchasers are kept in the "dark" - all they can do is brace for the worst.

[gplayer100]

Hey niemepet, you have made your point much more than once.

 

Let me make several points:

 

1. The ability to upgrade the Robot 1 was never promised. Saying something is an investment does not imply you can have upgrades. This a guitar, not a computer. A 1959 Les Paul is and has been a great investment but it is not because Gibson replaces parts.

 

2. The Robot 1 is a guitar. Like all guitars, it has a unique style and tonal character. That is why people buy guitars. The Robot 1 technology was specifically designed to be as non intrusive as possible, allowing the guitar to be what it is without technology interfering. The Robot technology in the Robot 1 generation brought on significant enhancement, the ability to easily tune to different tunings and to intonate the instrument.

 

3. Dark Fire is a guitar. This instrument has a unique style and tonal character that is the result of many design improvements and manufacturing process enhancements. The instrument itself is an innovation, beyond the electronics included.

 

4. Chameleon tone technology is intimately linked to the specifics of the guitar design and construction. You cannot drop in a circuit board and turn another guitar into Dark Fire.

 

5. I think it is a great thing that a company thinks enough of its customers to give them an option to upgrade a guitar to more current technology. That has not been done before in the guitar industry, and certainly not for a price close to cost. You can't even replace a battery in an Apple product.

 

6. The part of the technology in the Robot 1 guitars, the tuning system, CAN BE upgraded to the newest generation, yet the instruments tone and character are preserved.

 

 

A beautiful instrument is much more than a circuit or circuit board. While technology can enhance the instrument and give the player a better experience, what you are buying is a unique musical instrument.

 

Part of the investment in the 1st run Robot guitars is that they were a limited first run of a history making new technology. While many people may choose to update these beautiful instruments, they will also not be "original" and will very likely lose some of the historic value. This is something everyone should consider, in my opinion.

 

For those who purchased the several non first run models, I would think the newer technology would be very compelling. You would get a improved tuning functionality and still have the instrument tone and character of your prized instrument.

 

Respectly, Neimepet, you have made your point.

[vibedog]

The robot sg has a small hole beneath the bridge which I am assuming is a wire feedthrough from the bridge to the inner electronics. Therefore it appears gibson has indeed built the piezo upgradeability into the 1st gen robots. I'm not too interested in faster turing. I think the new tuners look great in the pics and being faster is great, but i've been tuning my guitar myself for many years and having the luxury of self tuning with different tunings is just great and I really don't feel any need to spend money on "faster" right now. However, an upgrade to include the piezo pickups would really add versatility to the guitar.

 

Something that I find that gets swept under the rug by all the "robot talk" is that the 1st gen sg is a really awesome guitar, I love it even without the robot features, the finish, binding, quality and fit, everything is just incredible- and of course the sound is incredible. I don't feel betrayed at all with this purchase. I'd love a piezo upgrade, but I have no buyers remorse.

 

Gibson really could have kept the 1st gen as a product offering separate from the darkfire. The darkfire differences, aside from the piezo, are neck profile, flametop, and neck and bridge pickups- these alone are enough to differentiate the product.

[PLexxiTronic]

I asked about price and availability when talking with Gibson Customer Service today. The Rep had no idea at all, saying that there was no announcement yet and that is the only time the Reps get information. He knew about it as it's listed in the web site... A couple things he did mention was that they thought there would be an announcment in a month or two. Also, he thought it would be a package that would not require the guitar to be sent to Gibson for installation.

 

Read the web carefully:

 

These incredible advances are not limited to owners of the new Gibson Dark Fire. Gibson players who bought the original Robot will soon be offered an opportunity to upgrade their Robot’s self-tuning technology to the new and improved self-tuning technology found on the Dark Fire. In just a few months, an upgrade kit will be made available at a price significantly lower than its standard retail price – reaffirming Gibson's aim is to keep all Robot products current and cutting edge, for all Gibson customers.

 

I'm thinking this implies to me that the upgrade only deals with TWO specific issues: a) Upgrade to the new, quick tuning system. This is new hardware and software. (probably get the top-hat knobs and MCK too).. B) new hardware (guts) that will allow the guitar have its software upgraded via the web. (probably get the new battery too and the hardware would probably allow interface out to a RIP).

 

These are the minimum items that would both "please" the 1st Robot users AND allow the guitars to be software upgradable (Puts software upgrades onto the responsibility of the customer AND allows access to the new batch of products that will be released $$$$).

 

THEN, I imagine, one can purchase a RIP, software, etc. on their own if they want it.

 

BTW. What about 1st Robot and Dark Fire users??? -- when Bluetooth is finished??? HA!

[Alouf]

Somehow I hope that we, the Robot owners, will get the Chameleon technology as well, since the robot already had the piezzo system on it.

 

This is how the strings are tuned.

[jimmyree]

I have the Robot V and I would like to have the new faster tuning system but have no interest in the other aspects of the Darkfire. I second the opinion that Gibson should offer different levels of the upgrade if they are in fact going to offer any of the chameleon technology stuff as an upgrade. I like the tuning the flexibility the robot system offers but have no interest in modeling technology built into my guitar. I myself will demand my stock parts back after the upgrade just because i already paid for them and as stated before keeping the origional parts is always wise when it comes to collectors value 20 or 30 years from now. Until then i'll play it like I stold it!!

[Giraku]

I have the Robot V and I would like to have the new faster tuning system but have no interest in the other aspects of the Darkfire. I second the opinion that Gibson should offer different levels of the upgrade if they are in fact going to offer any of the chameleon technology stuff as an upgrade. I like the tuning the flexibility the robot system offers but have no interest in modeling technology built into my guitar. I myself will demand my stock parts back after the upgrade just because i already paid for them and as stated before keeping the origional parts is always wise when it comes to collectors value 20 or 30 years from now. Until then i'll play it like I stold it!!

 

Chameleon technology is not modeling.

It alters its coil tapping pattern and adjust the built-in EQ so that the tone changes dramatically, hence the output signal stays analog throughout the system.

On the other hand, modeling technology (like the one with Variax) converts the pickup signal to digital data and process the data using the on-board micro-processor then it converts the signal back to analog.

So the Chameleon technology is just like having a coil tapping switch with tons of steroid.

 

Cheers.

[Steven Tari]

I have the robot SG, having been around a while buying guitars I found the best thing is to just leave the guitar the way it was built. The self tuning is cool and coming from an age before these new gimmicks when just having a distortion box, tremole,reverb and wha-wha with surf you were set. So ya'll change everything on your guitars so I'll have the only original robot from the factory left LOL. Just because they put out a better toy doesn't mean it is better.

[niemepet]

I have the Robot V and I would like to have the new faster tuning system but have no interest in the other aspects of the Darkfire.

 

Well, I don't care if the cars top speed is 100 mph or 110 mph... if you know what I mean. No difference to me.

[jimmyree]

Giraku, I stand corrected. I will restate myself, I like the tuning flexibility the robot system offers but have no interest in chameleon technology built into my guitar.

 

Niemepet, I do care what the top speed is if it means I can change tunings in the middle of a tune, or even retune faster in between songs to keep the music rolling and the audience rockin.

 

I dont want a Darkfire guitar, if I did I would buy one. I want a Robot guitar, and a faster tuning upgrade would be nice but certainly not a necessity. I certainly do not feel betrayed in anyway, you dont buy a 2008 model and then rush into the dealership and demand an upgrade because the 2009 model has more features. Thats just delusional! Gibson didn't declare that we were investing in the future of Chameleon technology, they said we were investing in the future of Robot technology, and that means the Tronical tuning system and nothing else.

 

If you paid attention to Mike's post above (who I believe is a Gibson employee) there will be no Chameleon upgrade for the Robot. If you go out and find some pics of an unbuilt DF body you will see ALOT more internal body chanelling than you have in a Robot LP, that is probably to accommodate some of the extra electronics needed to make the guitar work. If you think that chameleon tech just involves changing the little circuit card in the Robot you are sadly mistaken, just the pickup selector on the DF requires a circuit card that you dont have the real-esate for right now. Unless of course you want someone putting a router to your Robot or splitting the body to do some more chambering. If you want the chameleon upgrade that's cool I hope somebody can make that happen for you, but sadly it just doesn't look like its going to happen.

[rsx]

realistically how much do we reckon this upgrade will be?

 

if the 1st gen tronical system costs 800gbp then surely the new one will be atleast the same if not more. and even with a discount , that's a lot of dosh for a set of tuners, no matter how sexy or robotic they may be...

[elantric]

Could we relocate this thread to the new "Original Robot" Forum?

 

http://forums.gibson.com/Default.aspx?g=topics&f=84

[kursal]

realistically how much do we reckon this upgrade will be?

 

if the 1st gen tronical system costs 800gbp then surely the new one will be atleast the same if not more. and even with a discount ' date=' that's a lot of dosh for a set of tuners, no matter how sexy or robotic they may be... [/quote']

 

Yeah, that's a good point. I've only just bought my Robot and I can't see myself spending half the price of the guitar again just to make it tune slightly faster.

 

That raises another point though. At what point will the electrics in the Robot become so redundant that they can't be replaced?

[ppmkly]

As a current owner of the original Robot and a previous owner of a Dark Fire, I can honestly say that the GOR pickups blow away anything you’re able to get out of Dark Fire. I seriously don't understand all the hype outside of the faster tuning capabilities. In my (and my band mates) opinion, the Alnico pickups sound better, rounder, warmer that the DF's plain and simple. I will be upgrading my GOR and trying to get by without the hype of Chameleon.

[Alouf]

As a current owner of the original Robot and a previous owner of a Dark Fire' date=' I can honestly say that the GOR pickups blow away anything you’re able to get out of Dark Fire. I seriously don't understand all the hype outside of the faster tuning capabilities. In my (and my band mates) opinion, the Alnico pickups sound better, rounder, warmer that the DF's plain and simple. I will be upgrading my GOR and trying to get by without the hype of Chameleon.[/quote']

 

Nice to hear that. I LOVE my GOR's sounds. Best sounding guitar I ever played.

[jimmyree]

 

Nice to hear that. I LOVE my GOR's sounds. Best sounding guitar I ever played.

 

Ditto that!