DuaLeaD Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 So I will admit, when I first bought my 2007 Les Paul Supreme 5 years ago, I bought into the old pitch 100% that nitro-cellulose finishes are better than polyurethane finishes because: 1) They are easier to repair 2) They let the wood breathe 3) and therefore the guitar's TONE is improved I honestly don't get all the hype...Nitro-cellulose finishes 1) YELLOW over time, due to reactions to your sweat, atmosphere, cigarette smoke, ruining the original color of your guitar. 2) It cracks all to hell 3) Doesn't it seem ridiculous to say, "It's easier to repair!" Maybe it would be better to not have it crack as much in the first place? So those points aside, the only real benefits to this finish I can see are tone and having a vintage-built guitar (just because that's they way they've been making them). So my question is: 1) Has anyone EVER finished a real Gibson Les Paul in polyurethane to compare tonal differences? 2) Has Gibson made any effort to develope a nitro that does not age if they love it so much? Because I'm not going to use the words: "Character" "Aged" "Personality" ...to paint a rosy picture of what seems to be a bad way to finish the most beautiful guitars in the world. If I spend north of $2,000 and take great care of it (no dings), I expect it to look pristine and looking like the beautiful color I paid a fortune on for decades.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 How about the word "beautiful"? Do you buy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueslespaultone Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I love nitro finishes over poly "plastic " finishes....... I must say I buy into "character" etc , I believe it's a part of the formula for tone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 So I will admit, when I first bought my 2007 Les Paul Supreme 5 years ago, I bought into the old pitch 100% It's not an old pitch. It is only as old as the original Harmony Central Guitar Forum, where a couple of dbags first started putting that crap on the internets and people actually just started repeating all of it. Real guitar players have always been aware that that is just how guitars are made, and it is good enough to not change, because we all want certain sounds and those sounds come from guitars finished that way, so don't change it. That's all there is to it. No, nobody has bothered to take a nitro'd Les Paul, strip it, and shoot it with poly because it just isn't worth it. Would you like to volunteer one of yours? I didn't think so! rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Also nitro makes You faster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 2) Has Gibson made any effort to develop a nitro that does not age if they love it so much?... Yes, actually. They have. Do you really think the nitro used today has the same chemical formula as the nitro used in the 1950's? A 2012 LP will not check in the same way the original guitars did. Nor, if properly looked-after, will the modern instruments 'Amber' in quite the same fashion. Same story with the dyes/pigmentation used for the finishes - as is well known. In some instances the red section of the 'bursts crafted in the period '58 - early 1960 had started to fade even before the guitars left the stores. Gibson changed the formula of the red colourant in mid-1960 from a dye-based one to a pigment-based version which was more resistant to the fading effects of sunlight. So yes. Gibson has made some effort to ensure the current range of guitars will stay looking good. I'm not saying the guitars will not age at all. They will. But not as much as the original instruments have done. Finally; many types of guitar will yellow due to the reasons you mention - not just nitro-finished Gibsons - and this will, of course, be most clearly noticeable on white instruments. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvar Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 If you want to find if there are tonal differences- just play an Epiphone- it's poly finished- of course, to make it a direct comparison, you'd have to match up all the electronics, etc. I use my guitars, I expect them to have a few dents and dings, otherwise, I'm not makin' money- No case queens for me- I love the nitro finish Gibson uses, it feels superior to poly to me- your results may vary, plus, I like the fact that all the old violins and stuff used nitro finishes, imo they just get better with age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Also nitro makes You faster... ...especially if sprayed in a poorly-ventilated room........... Am I allowed to say that ?........... :unsure: Just Say No! Folks ! ! ! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 If it's street-legal in UK, take it out! :D Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXE® Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Nitro finishes make me happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Nitro lacquers were invented in the 1920's and used extensively in auto finishes...even today as 'touch up' scratch repair sprays Orchestral strings tend to be shellac finished...very similar to 'french polish' a la wood furniture...lac insect resin dissolved in alcohol I have a cheap German violin which is poly finished...very durable but a bit too thick and glossy for my taste Things start to get blurred with the modern metallic sparkle guitar finishes... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 .... If I spend north of $2,000 and take great care of it (no dings), I expect it to look pristine and looking like the beautiful color I paid a fortune on for decades.... Color, maybe, . finish - totally unrealistic, even for a poly finish - unless you plan on keeping locked in its case only to open to look at now and then. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuaLeaD Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 Thanks for the xtra info - Keep the posts coming I will be following this up with a 5-year aging pic thread of my Les Paul Supreme in "Alpine White" and see what you think. 12/17/2012 will mark 5 years :) I know I was ranting, but overall I am an extremely happy Gibson Les Paul owner. I will post the pics and let you be the judge. Another contributing factor is this guitar is white and any change deviation in the lacquer's color will be very glaring compared to say good ol' "Heritage Cherry Sunburst". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 ...I will be following this up with a 5-year aging pic thread of my Les Paul Supreme in "Alpine White" and see what you think. 12/17/2012 will mark 5 years... That might well be interesting to see. As many here already know I've seen a big change in my '95 R0 since I bought her - also in 2007, as it happens. I didn't take many snaps early on but I took a few when I first noticed the checking starting to occur and have taken a few more in the interim. I might get the old Box-Brownie out this morning to see if much has happened in the last year. We could compare aging snaps... P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuaLeaD Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 That might well be interesting to see. As many here already know I've seen a big change in my '95 R0 since I bought her - also in 2007, as it happens. I didn't take many snaps early on but I took a few when I first noticed the checking starting to occur and have taken a few more in the interim. I might get the old Box-Brownie out this morning to see if much has happened in the last year. We could compare aging snaps... P. Very cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 As always...an interesting and emotive topic for discussion... As an aside, I remember when violins, cellos etc were 'jazzed up' for the likes of ELO, Vanessa Mae et al with white paint and other opaque colours after 100's of years of rich, natural wood finish Personally the 'daddy's' of white guitars are the Strat and Gretsch White Falcon(often with gold P/U's) for zap aesthetics An earlier topic enthused about white Firebirds a la Johnny Winter...moi would never hide that laminated through neck :blink: Apart from a White Strat I'm strictly a wood man... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 An earlier topic enthused about white Firebirds a la Johnny Winter...moi would never hide that laminated through neck :blink: Apart from a White Strat I'm strictly a wood man... That's interesting to hear, V. I hadn't really thought about it before but my own preferences seem to be polarised according to the type of guitar. Where LPs are concerned I much prefer to see the wood-grain - 'Bursts of some description and Trans-Amber/Lemon Drop - as opposed to the solid colours such as G-T's, Black Beauties etc... Explorers? Must be natural. Tele's? Blonde/Butterscotch Blackguard by preference. But with Strats and Firebirds (for example) I absolutely adore the DuPont paint finishes used from the late '50s-on through (originally) the sixties. Candy-Apple and Fiesta Reds; Lake Placid and Pelham Blues; Surf and Inverness Greens. The variety was Fantastic! One of the first guitars that made me go 'WOW!' was Phil Manzanera's '63 Firebird VII in Cardinal Red(?) with, of course, the Ebony 'board, Pearl block inlays, 3 mini p'ups and all Gold Hardware. Here's a fairly recent snap of the pair of them...it's still a gorgeous guitar! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Thankyou for your comments P...and the reminders of the great looking guitars I omitted... The Firebird is such a great dramatic shape, a bright colour like red takes it up several levels...Gary Moore, Eric Clapton and Brian Jones each toted red Firebirds at some point For me a Candy Apple Jazzmaster looks the part And Hank Marvin's red Strat is iconic The black 335's a la BB King and Roy Orbison are entirely appropriate And I almost forgot that 'go faster' Tom DeLonge ES 333 which IMO shows a great sense of humour... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuaLeaD Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 Thanks for the pic Pippy...Would like a high-res one closer up, but that looks VERY optimistic....I figured the yellowing nitro lacquer would turn red guitars orange and blue guitars green, but his guitar has held up very nicely. So that's 50+ years of aging on his? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 The old thick poly finishes seemed to retard the vibration of the guitar from what Ive seen. The morsels I can offer is: *Poly type finishes today, like on my Lowden & H&D, are different than the bowling alley variety back in the day. This new finish is no detrement to the sound,those two makers acoustic guitars are the best new guitars Ive come across out there. But all poly/acrylic type finishes are not the same even today.And these two guys lay it on thin in a certain technique. *I had one of the first 59' Gibson reissue Les Pauls..12 came to 48th Street NYC in 1982 or 83 ,most went to Japan, I got .011 Serial number. It was ENCASED in Polyurethene..in 10 years IT NEVER GOT BETTER SOUNDING...THE GUITAR SUCKED...and never even scratched. When I got THE first 59 ' Historic to get to 48th street in 93' it vibrated like an acoustic guitar compared to that other shite.It was all nitro & just touching it made scratches on it...and it was worth it. *When Vince Cunetto made the first Fender relics he went to using a natural finish to get the old look..he says that finish made those guitars sound better . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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