D28boy Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Hi I've just started lessons with a guy who's quite adamant that my left hand thumb should basically remain in the same position behind the neck whatever I'm playing... Open chords, barred chords, lead whatever..IMO This is the Classical position...and while it suites shredding I'm not convinced it helps with bending...What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 All over the place. Wherever is neccessary. Behind the neck is fine - even preferable - for many things but better results, when adding vibrato and bending for instance, are achieved by a different approach IMX. Sometimes fretting the low E string with the thumb adds texture to certain chords. Other times the thumb can be used for playing an accompanying bass-line. Why restrict your playing by adopting an inflexible technique? P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 It goes where it's needed at the time... Tell your teacher he can go play a good game of switch with his thumbs... Instructions: put your right thumb in your mouth, stick your left thumb up your arse... Then switch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 IMX it is worthwhile perfecting the classical stance at this stage...the potential for clean execution of notes/chords is then 'in the bag' What often happens then on is the realisation that many chords are easier/quicker using the thumb And one of the most important aspects...less fatigue during longer performances... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 It was a mistake to add "Wherever You want" option. It instantly calls for a joke. My answer is: wherever it's comfortable. (OK, this one calls for jokes too). Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 IMX it is worthwhile perfecting the classical stance at this stage...the potential for clean execution of notes/chords is then 'in the bag'... Agreed. I've no idea what level of skill D28boy has and it should go as-read that clean chordwork etc. is essential and the 'thumb-behind-the-neck' position should be perfected. Afterwards different techniques could be explored to suit. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D28boy Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 Thanx for the responses so far...especially from the gentleman in Spain I'd like to think that I'm an intermediate player ( at least) & so clean chords etc aren't a problem. I've been playing since I was about 14 and I'm 51 now ... though I took a huge family break in the middle. Was good enough as a rhythm player to front a fairly sucessful local band at that time but lead is new to me. I've been learning lead now for a about 2 years and have my boxes and scales fairly well nailed. So the tutor idea is an atttempt at getting this all tied together with some style. I'll see how it goes. Pippy you hit the nail on the head for me.... I can see how this set up gives you more reach and a cleaner approach which is great for high speed work but for me it make bending and creating nuances so much harder plus you can't use the thumb for bass line runs etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 I'm a bit surprised your teacher is uncompromising on this. Shredders aside I am struggling to think of a great player who does that. I have bakers thumbs which means when I play with my thumb behind the neck, the geometry is very different than when someone else does. I think the usage of the tool in question has changed enough that original correct method is no longer the best practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 well, I've been teaching for many years, and playing for the better side of 5 decades, The thumb goes where it needs to go, that is the end of the discussion. the teacher, with all due respect, is incorrect in this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Doing BB-style vibrato requires that your thumb go over the top of the neck for leverage, but as Versatile said, putting your thumb behind the neck (in addition to positioning the guitar higher) helps in giving a better angle to cleanly grip chords and hit individual notes or even to mute strings with the left hand. The best answer is probably wherever is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 I try to keep it on the back of the neck but it doesn't always work properly....i'll keep trying though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Behind the neck is really a classical style. You struggle to do vibrato right like that. But, rudiments are important. Get the basics right and then change. Go with the teacher until you've learnt so much and then change teacher. Watch video's and see how others thumbs sit. I think you'll find that Doug Aldrich (Whitesnake) plays with his thumb behind the neck. I think it looks awkward, but he's a better player than most, so it can't be that bad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbtrR3Z_xz8 Great vibrato too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 It's about time we had sensible posts like this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Hi I've just started lessons with a guy who's quite adamant that my left hand thumb should basically remain in the same position behind the neck whatever I'm playing... Open chords, barred chords, lead whatever..IMO This is the Classical position...and while it suites shredding I'm not convinced it helps with bending...What do you think? It's like teaching everything. You have to start somewhere, you have to develop as good a set of habits as you can, so you try early on to keep the thumb in the middle of the neck while trying to get the kid through the fundamentals. If you don't do that, you'll have every kid in the lesson room with a different grip and the guitar at all kindsa dumb heights and angles because they saw the guy in One Direction do it that way. It's like teaching a kid to drive a manual trans if they still put them in the All The Same Size And Looking Asian And Euro Imports today. The tach is up there so you know when to shift until you drive long enough to know when to shift, if that makes sense. Go through the fundamentals, if he's a decent teacher he'll one week just say ok put yer damn thumb wherever you want that's enough of that. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Your thumb goes to a position that works best for you. Two of the best to ever play the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 It's about time we had sensible posts like this again. Very true. The last couple of days have been the best this forum has been in ages. Sorry for the hijack, back to thumbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 After playing for over 40 years with my thumb over the top, I tried playing just with my thumb behind the neck. It felt awkward at first, but after about a week, it became natural. Now, I place my thumb wherever it needs to be, usually behind the neck. There are some chords that work best with the thumb on top. BTW, you can do a verticle vibrato and bends with your thumb behind the neck, but you can't easily get the depth of vibrato that BB does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyMoon Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Some good replies ....also keep in mind you may want to adjust your guitar strap to help some....if your used to playing it around your knees you may find it an easier transition to raise it up some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevoz Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Each to his/her own really. I learned to play guitar 27 years ago from books. I played classical before I got into rock and for me thumbs anywhere other than behind the neck is taboo. When I see my favourite rock guitarists (e.g. Jimi) using thumbs I cringe. Having said that, a lot depends on the positioning of the guitar. When playing classical the guitar sits up high (foot on stool) and hands are high. When playing with the guitar dangling on a strap, the guitar tends to sit lower and it is harder to keep the thumb low. I gave up classical for rock and have got into a few bad habits myself. I catch my thumb creeping up high above the low E string quite often. I find I can get better pressure on my fingertips when the thumb is properly positioned or close to it. So, if you are finding you are muffing your chords, try positioning your thumb so that the mid part of the thumb sits on the guideline under the neck (if there is one), helping position the fingertips horizontal to the fretboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Most of the time thumb behind the neck, but every now and then around the neck. To comment on your comment, bending is easier for me with thumb behind the neck. Of course, we are all built differently. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Me thinks: It's all about what the teacher wants. You aren't there to learn how to play like you, you are there to learn how to play like your teacher. That's all he can teach you- what HE knows. I think when choosing a teacher, it matters a great deal that you choose a teacher that you want to know what he knows. If you don't know or have background on the teacher, then it's just pure trust that he knows something that you want. When I have taken lessons, I basically put down everything I know and try to play exactly like the teacher as much as I can, to learn as much as I can from him during the time together. Couple examples: I approached this guy (Terry Robb, Fantasic player!) because I wanted to know a certain "lick", or basically, how he can play certain runs so fast and clean. I just basically wanted THAT aspect. Getting it from "the guy" is always the best way, so I asked him if he gave lessons. He didn't, but agreed to do one and take it from there. He asked me to play a little for him, saw I was "competent", and then it took off from there. To my SURPRISE, he took me all the way back to basics. Started me on some Mississipi John Hirt stuff, started me fingerpicking basic tunes. I was like "wtf", but I was honored he wanted to teach me, and I suspected there was something behind it. He played chords that REQUIRED over-the-top thumb, and I couldn't play like that at all. I was basically back to square one, playing like a beginner again. During this time, I got curious and asked him to play some "jazz" type bar chord stuff. He wasn't much better at it than I was playing his way. I could NOT play well like that for the life of me, but I was there to learn from him and understand his playing. I stuck with it until eventually I could "feel" what he feels when he plays. I LEARNED what he does even though I couldn't do it. Eventually, after a LONG time, it clicked, and there I was, playing the licks I wanted in the first place. The moral of THAT story was I only had about 6 or 8 private lessons from him, but I gleaned enough to have hours upon hours of practice by paying attention, and it took a year or so before it "clicked". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 No one rbought this up, I don't think. My small girlie hands can't stretch with thick necks of classical nylon guitars so I have to go "back of neck" when I play one of them, but with my SG '73, slim neck, I'd have a hard time not going over and around. I even use my thumb on the fat E string. Yes, I said "girlie hands." Go on, chuckle at my expence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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