LarryUK Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpigDGf6vXM Is it just me or is Page's playing abysmal on this? His solo is shocking. Like a drunk playing. I'm not moaning for moaning sake here. I think these songs are classics and Zep are legends, but this is a step too far. It's like he'd not played for years and just walked on the stage. The rest of the band are tight and Plant's singing comes across ok. But Page! Dreadful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampash Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 I think this song is a bad example of Page's playing in the concert. I think he makes bad playing decisions instead of bad playing. He takes the riff up a key in certain parts where it just doesn't suit the song. A bit of a mess. But the rest of the concert is stunning stuff. I wouldn't base Page's performance in the concert solely on this song as he was pretty good. I do agree that they make a mess of this song which is a shame as it's one of my favourite Zep songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaleb Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 It still sounded good, but he was so sloppy he made Ace Frehley's worst moments look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblooded Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 While I'v always liked Zepplin and Page's guitar work, I've always considered him the sloppiest player of the greats. It's just the way it's always been. When he's on, I think theres a raw emotion in the sloppiness that makes his lead work great. And when he's not on, well, it's just not pretty. What I really struggle with about it is he's playing stuff he created and has been playing for decades - how can that stuff go awry in his hands? Plant's vocal quality is the other part of Zep that I've always struggled with. It's like a love/hate thing with me from one song to the next. And I consider Led Zepplin one of my favorite all time bands. Does anyone else understand what I'm saying or have similar thoughts/feelings? Is this weird? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaysEpiphone Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Lolz! You guys have obviously never had to cover 4 different guitar progressions/sounds with just one guitar/amp and 2 hand's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I think that's why they choose not to do Zep anymore: to high a standard to have to live up to. We don't judge Zep by normal standards, we judge them by the impossible standard they set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaleb Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I think that's why they choose not to do Zep anymore: to high a standard to have to live up to. We don't judge Zep by normal standards, we judge them by the impossible standard they set. At least they understand that. Unlike some bands.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 I think that's why they choose not to do Zep anymore: to high a standard to have to live up to. We don't judge Zep by normal standards, we judge them by the impossible standard they set. I judge all bands the same. Page was a session player. How on earth did he manage that? I've never seen a live clip of Zep where his playing was spot on. Look at clips of Schon, or Steve Lukather. You'll never hear a bum note. Page isn't the master that people make him out to be. Zep was a case of 'right place, right time' with a dose of luck thrown in. Even Clapton isn't what he was made out to be. Just an average player. I suppose the bottom line is...The song. No point being great if your music is s**t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I think he chose to play it "different" and make it edgy and sloppy. Even Page sang it different. They've been playing that tired song for decades, it gets boring so they decided to spice it up. Perhaps their ego tells them they can do no wrong, maybe that has something to do with it. I didn't enjoy it, and as a Zep fan, it is hard to dislike them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D28boy Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I judge all bands the same. Page was a session player. How on earth did he manage that? I've never seen a live clip of Zep where his playing was spot on. Look at clips of Schon, or Steve Lukather. You'll never hear a bum note. Page isn't the master that people make him out to be. Zep was a case of 'right place, right time' with a dose of luck thrown in. Even Clapton isn't what he was made out to be. Just an average player. I suppose the bottom line is...The song. No point being great if your music is s**t. I agree with your bottom line but classing Clapton as "Just an average player" and Page as "a dose of luck" can't be right ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 I agree with your bottom line but classing Clapton as "Just an average player" and Page as "a dose of luck" can't be right ! But, Clapton IS an average player. He's not technically superb. There must be thousands of better players that fell by the wayside. He was a case of 'right place, right time' and 'who you know'. In most walks of life it's 'who you know' and especially in the case of the UK, you had/have to be in London. Without going too far from the subject, in the music business it's how you look too. How many fat guitarists do you see (excluding Leslie West)? As for Page. A decent rhythm player and a mediocre lead player. I wonder how many takes he took for lead parts? I've yet to see a live (lead) performance of Page that was without bum notes and competent. Another case of 'pretty boy wins'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G McBride Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I liked it. I think they meant for it to sound that way and that they were not trying to duplicate how they played in the past. Looked to me like they were just having fun entertaining in front of a crowd again together. The Drums and Bass held the song together so that they could just noodle around a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 DUDE! Thank you! I thought I was the only one that was NOT impressed by that video of Black Dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 It's amazing how people show their envy and knock down talented people as if they could do it better... I'd like to see one of those guys pull off a concert like that when they're almost 70 years old... Just sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 It's amazing how people show their envy and knock down talented people as if they could do it better... I'd like to see one of those guys pull off a concert like that when they're almost 70 years old... Just sayin'... I'm not envious. Why do you think they haven't done a tour and earned a fortune for it? I like Zeppelin. But if you go to 3.40 and listen to the solo that a 15 year could do better, you'll see why. Page is dreadful. Just a barrage of duff notes. Full stop. He obviously hadn't practiced and couldn't do it. He really never has been a live player though, has he? Age shouldn't come into it either. If they're past it, they shouldn't have done it. Why do you think it has taken so long for this to be released? I bet Page has cringed at this and didn't want it released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 When I criticise something, I think about what I'm saying. Just because you like the colour Red, doesn't mean that everything that is Red is great. I like Zeppelin and they've made some great legendary music. But this is poor by any standards. Plant is OK, but he does struggle. They've made a bad decision by releasing it. The concert was Ok, but for mainstream release it's not good enough. Whether you love Zep/Page or not,don't base an opinion on a rose tinted view. I suppose If I said that Justin Beiber was OK you'd all go mad. But he HAS to have something to get where he has. I'm not a fan of his, but he has got talent and drive. I've posted recently that if the music is good, it's OK by me. I go by musicianship and production when I listen to music. Naturally the songs have to be OK. But I can't listen to poorly played music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Bill Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 How refreshing to see someone else's opinions concur with mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 But, Clapton IS an average player. He's not technically superb. There must be thousands of better players that fell by the wayside. He was a case of 'right place, right time' and 'who you know'. In most walks of life it's 'who you know' and especially in the case of the UK, you had/have to be in London. Without going too far from the subject, in the music business it's how you look too. How many fat guitarists do you see (excluding Leslie West)? As for Page. A decent rhythm player and a mediocre lead player. I wonder how many takes he took for lead parts? I've yet to see a live (lead) performance of Page that was without bum notes and competent. Another case of 'pretty boy wins'. Clapton an "average" player?!?!? You're missing something, bro. Clapton was/is anything but. He started as a blues player, and not only was he technically superb at it, he was able to raise the bar and kick it up because he not only understood it, he had something special. He didn't end up "at the right place at the right time"..they sought him out. A listen to any of his earliest recordings with the Yardbirds or the Bluebreakers demonstrates that. And of corse, Cream, which was built upon 3 "technically superb" players, who because of that, were able to translate the blues into something different entirely. And of corse, if you don't think Page was a good live player, you discount the legendary reputation of the Led Zeppilin live shows. There wasn't any other guitarist playing for Zep to cause that. And as for his studio work, The Led Zep catalog speaks for itself. I find it hard to believe that the guy who gave us the Led Zep recordings could NOT have been a good studio musician. As for ANY definition of what one might call a technically superb guitarist, if you were to take these two out of history, what we have now might likely not exist. If you were to subtract what these two have done for music, TECHNICALLY, it might not be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 The drumming doesnt sound right. Sometimes its best to leave things in the past and do your own thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 if you don't think Page was a good live player, you discount the legendary reputation of the Led Zeppilin live shows. There wasn't any other guitarist playing for Zep to cause that. And as for his studio work, The Led Zep catalog speaks for itself. I find it hard to believe that the guy who gave us the Led Zep recordings could NOT have been a good studio musician. As for ANY definition of what one might call a technically superb guitarist, if you were to take these two out of history, what we have now might likely not exist. If you were to subtract what these two have done for music, TECHNICALLY, it might not be good. Firstly, I've never met a guitarist that stated that Page was their influence for playing. Yes, Zep were good in the studio, But Page live wasn't. Hence, HOW MANY takes did it take in the studio? I've not mentioned that Page was a bad studio musician. All I'm commenting on is THIS live performance. Back to Clapton. He's a player that was in the right place at the right time. He looked good. I've never seen him play anything that stunned me. He's competent at what he does, but he's not technical at all. Steve Lukather, Neal Schon, Andy Timmons, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Mark Tremonti, Tommy Emmanuel, Joe Bonamassa, Santana, Richie Kotzen all players that walk over the above mentioned two. But I bet Jimi Hendrix was the influence for 90% of them not Page or Clapton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 he's not technical at all. That's the part you are missing...there IS a lot "technical" in his playing, it has to do with blues and presentation, timing, etc. PHRASING, that's extremely technical, as is his approach in how he translates, "hears" what is there and replicates or susbstitutes. There is a lot more to music, AND music thoery than notes and chords and scales. And speed is secondary to timing, if you want to get down to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I agree with a lot of the comments: that performance was horrible. The guitar playing was sloppy and all over the place. JPJ's tone is bad and does not cut through the mix. The fact that they change the song up to better suit Plant's older voice is OK with me. I will say that I appreciate that Jason Bonham took this performance seriously and practiced his *** off for it. Killer drumming on a amber Vistalite kit, none the less. Regarding Clapton, he *used* to be amazing, but he's turned into milquetoast mellow pop blues. Maybe those lost decades strung out on drugs have softened him? I don't know; someone needs to light a fire under him. Maybe Buddy Guy can slap him up a bit? He's missing grit and attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I'd like to see one of those guys pull off a concert like that when they're almost 70 years old... Just sayin'... So...to criticize a basketball player, I have to be able to play better than them? To criticize a politician, I need to be able to do their job better? To criticize a teacher, I need to be able to teach better than them? You see where this is going. The ONLY qualification that you need to criticize music is to know what you like. If what you hear is not what you like, then its fair play to criticize. That's one of the most annoying things people say to defend their heroes...."lets see you do it better"...totally irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BofddwtPBPw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXE® Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 lolz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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