simonsimon Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 A friend owns this black Les Paul. I think it must be from the 70's. But what year excactly? And what is it worth? Pictures are here: http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/4617185 Thanks, Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 A friend owns this black Les Paul. I think it must be from the 70's. But what year excactly? And what is it worth? Pictures are here: http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/4617185 Thanks, Simon According to the "Guitar Dater Project" website: Your guitar was made at the Kalamazoo or Nashville Plant , USA approximately in: 1970, 1971 or 1972 It is a Les Paul two pickup custom. In the UK and in fair condition (which it looks to be) then certainly in excess of £2,400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 According to the "Guitar Dater Project" website: Your guitar was made at the Kalamazoo or Nashville Plant , USA approximately in: 1970, 1971 or 1972. Guitar Dater strikes again. The Gibson Nashville plant did not yet exist during these years, AND that number (on a guitar with features as pictured) actually could have been used anytime from 1970 through early 1975. Anyway.... The features of the guitar pictured, plus the serial number, only confirm the era of 70-75, and even going through a step-by-step explanation of the specific features of the guitar pictured will not help narrow it down any closer. In situations like this, the potentiometer date codes have become the accepted method of verifying a mfg date. PS: Fun Fact.... During the period 1970-1975 Gibson made over 18,000 black Les Paul Customs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Guitar Dater strikes again. The Gibson Nashville plant did not yet exist during these years, AND that number (on a guitar with features as pictured) actually could have been used anytime from 1970 through early 1975. Anyway.... The features of the guitar pictured, plus the serial number, only confirm the era of 70-75, and even going through a step-by-step explanation of the specific features of the guitar pictured will not help narrow it down any closer. In situations like this, the potentiometer date codes have become the accepted method of verifying a mfg date. PS: Fun Fact.... During the period 1970-1975 Gibson made over 18,000 black Les Paul Customs. I did wonder about that Nashville reference. 18000 is a lot of Les Pauls. I wonder how many of those still exist? I would guess that most of them do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonsimon Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Thanks everyone. My friend checked the potentiometers and he did not find any dates on there. He says the potentiometers are blank on the back. One thing though: someone mentioned to me that the addition of the words "Made in USA" on the back of the headstock suggest that the guitar was made after Gibson started to produce Guitars in Asia. Could that narrow it down any closer? Is there any other method to find out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 .... The features of the guitar pictured, plus the serial number, only confirm the era of 70-75, and even going through a step-by-step explanation of the specific features of the guitar pictured will not help narrow it down any closer... This. It looks exactly like a regular Norlin-era Custom should - volute; horn shape; headstock etc...etc... A few things are non-original such as the control knobs but no biggie. As L5Larry stated the serial number doesn't help as records and numbering systems from this period are notoriously unreliable. In the (very surprising) absence of pot codes there is absolutely no way of narrowing down further the date for this instrument. FWIW one reference book suggests 1975 as the most likely year for that date but be aware that this source has been inaccurate before... ...someone mentioned to me that the addition of the words "Made in USA" on the back of the headstock suggest that the guitar was made after Gibson started to produce Guitars in Asia... Gibson started to stamp 'Made in USA' on the rear of the peghead in 1970 and continued to '75 before reintroducing the practice in '77. Gibson does not make Gibson-branded guitars in Asia; nor have they ever done so. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonsimon Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Since the owner is sure all the parts are original: How about the "Waffle" tuners? Were they made until 1975? Somewhere I read: "In 1972, the "i" dot reappeared on the peghead logo." Could that indicate the year? My friend is really eager to find out if his guitar is made earlier than 1974 since a 1970 Les Paul would have more value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Since the owner is sure all the parts are original: How about the "Waffle" tuners? Were they made until 1975? Somewhere I read: "In 1972, the "i" dot reappeared on the peghead logo." Could that indicate the year? My friend is really eager to find out if his guitar is made earlier than 1974 since a 1970 Les Paul would have more value. If it is all-original the pots will have a code stamped on them. Ask him to look again. I say again; at no time did Ebony Customs come with gold hat-box knobs as standard equipment - right from the outset until the present day Black Customs have come with black knobs. Regardless of whether they were hat-box; speed; witch-hats; mirror-dish - they were always black on a black Custom. Yes, waffle-back tuners were still available in '75. In Tony Bacon's 'The Les Paul Book' there is a '74 Custom with no dotted 'i' and on the cover of Ian C. Bishop's '76 book there is a '75 Custom similarly without the dot. A price difference between '70 and '74? Not really. Condition and originality count for more than the year in this period. A '74/5 all-original is worth more than a '70 with changed parts. A '68 is worth more than, say, a '72. This is because they are built differently as regards volutes, neck-composition and so-on. A '69 is worth a small amount more than, say, a '72 for the same reasons but not as much as a '68 as the spec had changed. The big changes came in late '69/'70 with the arrival of volutes, larger peghead etc... After that it doesn't really matter as they were, for all intents and purposes, the same between '70 and '76. 3-piece mahogany necks compared with 3-piece maple? No real value change. Finally, here's hoping he can find those pot codes. Otherwise it would seem that the pots have also been replaced........ P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I notice it has the closed sattle bridge which suggests it is closer to a mid 70's guitar rather than an early 70's guitar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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