Need Parts for Varitone for my ES-335

[bluezguy]

Got some time on my hands and, bein' that I've never owned a 'Lucille', I wanna put together a copy of the stock Varitone switch & circuit in an external box for experimental purposes.

Is the switch that ALLParts sells the identical one that Gibson uses??

 

My '06 Dot is the brightest and most powerful of all my arsenal so she lends herself to this adventure.

 

I can't seem to find any Gibson part sellers who have it other than ALLParts. Don't want no other brand or rockstar stuff ... just the real deal. Thanks!

[gnappi]

Got some time on my hands and, bein' that I've never owned a 'Lucille', I wanna put together a copy of the stock Varitone switch & circuit in an external box for experimental purposes.

Is the switch that ALLParts sells the identical one that Gibson uses??

 

My '06 Dot is the brightest and most powerful of all my arsenal so she lends herself to this adventure.

 

I can't seem to find any Gibson part sellers who have it other than ALLParts. Don't want no other brand or rockstar stuff ... just the real deal. Thanks!

 

A guy on EBAY has them already made for <$50 it's called a Pentatone

[L5Larry]

A switch is a switch is a switch.

 

What drives a Varitone circuit is the CHOKE. So your question should be "where do I find an authentic Gibson Varitone circuit choke"

 

As the "Varitone" and "stereo" were the downfall of the 345 and 355, many of these units were changed out for standard mono 335 type operation, and the gutted parts seem to all be popping up on e-bay. Just make sure to have your credit card ready.

 

NOBODY makes aftermarket parts for the "Varitone" circuit because NOBODY wanted them in the first place (except me... my main R&R and Blues guitar is a mono Varitone 345)!

 

If you find your parts, I have the wiring diagrams for both the "mono" and "stereo" Varitone.

[Pin]

 

NOBODY makes aftermarket parts for the "Varitone" circuit because NOBODY wanted them in the first place (except me... my main R&R and Blues guitar is a mono Varitone 345)!

 

 

And me!

 

I used to have a Gibson ES345 and I bitterly regret selling it. I have an Epi version now (best I could afford) but I love varitones.

 

One thing is for sure - if ever I were in the market for a Gibby 345 or 355 (vari otion) I wouldn't touch it if the varitone and stereo circuits had been messed with. Absolute sacrilege!

[bluezguy]

A switch is a switch is a switch.

 

What drives a Varitone circuit is the CHOKE. So your question should be "where do I find an authentic Gibson Varitone circuit choke"

 

As the "Varitone" and "stereo" were the downfall of the 345 and 355, many of these units were changed out for standard mono 335 type operation, and the gutted parts seem to all be popping up on e-bay. Just make sure to have your credit card ready.

 

NOBODY makes aftermarket parts for the "Varitone" circuit because NOBODY wanted them in the first place (except me... my main R&R and Blues guitar is a mono Varitone 345)!

 

If you find your parts, I have the wiring diagrams for both the "mono" and "stereo" Varitone.

 

Hey L5 ... thanks for that. Here is the description off of ALLPARTS site ... is this not it??

EP-0920-000 6-position Rotary Switch. Rotary Switch, 6-Position, 4-Pole, With Black Pointer Knob. Threaded bushing is 3/8" long. $15. I'd like to try different cap values when I assemble her.

[L5Larry]

The "Gibson" Varitone circuit works more like a crossover network than simply and treble bleed type tone control. The brain box of a Varitone contains resistors, capacitors and coils. In other words, it's not just a switch and caps. I believe I remember someone here posting a very good technical explanation of what it does and how it works. Try a search in the archives.

 

I'm assuming you would go mono with whatever mod you do, so here's the "Mono Varitone" circuit schematic:

 

 

Here's a link to the "stereo" version schematic:

http://www.gibson.com/Files/schematics/ES345.PDF

 

The AllParts switch you reference is not the exact switch Gibson used, but with six-positions and 4-poles there is a lot of flexibility on what you could make that switch do. As Gibson has recently made an ES-345SV in Memphis (and made some "Historics" in Nashville 10 or 15 years ago), they are sourcing these parts somewhere.

[bluezguy]

 

The AllParts switch you reference is not the exact switch Gibson used, but with six-positions and 4-poles there is a lot of flexibility on what you could make that switch do. As Gibson has recently made an ES-345SV in Memphis (and made some "Historics" in Nashville 10 or 15 years ago), they are sourcing these parts somewhere.

 

Ten thumbs up for that info & diagram L5 !!!!!!!!!! It was Gibson support who gave me that AllParts info. I'll keep ya posted on progress.

[CR9]

You might give Jimmy (or whoever answers) a call at J. Gravity Strings as he may have the original switch. The other parts are pretty easy to find at electronics stores. Gravity Strings

He has been doing great repairs for over 30 years and is a Gibson authorized repair center.

 

Also try Lisa at Gateway Electronics. You probably won't find the parts on the web site, but they should be able to get everything you need with one phone call to the store. Gateway Electronics

[gnappi]

And me!

 

I used to have a Gibson ES345 and I bitterly regret selling it. I have an Epi version now (best I could afford) but I love varitones.

 

One thing is for sure - if ever I were in the market for a Gibby 345 or 355 (vari otion) I wouldn't touch it if the varitone and stereo circuits had been messed with. Absolute sacrilege!

 

And me! I specifically bought my ES-137 custom, 345, and Blueshawk guitars BECAUSE they have Varitone. Some didn't like the varitone because of the volume drop when switching off "1" but I set the volume at position 2 and volume drop gets far less noticeable.

 

But this is no different from the tone stack or EQ on any amp. Add bass, or mid and volume goes up, subtract and it goes down. For the life of me I can't see why it makes no difference in an amp but it killed the same principle in a guitar.

[rossington88]

Heya, Bluezguy!!

I know it's a little late in the game but I figured I would chime in... I'm in the process of doing the same thing. After extensive research, I have only been able to find out the following: (Everything posted on the upper diagram); The pull-up resistors are in place to avoid the 'popping' Gibson varitones will produce when switching positions; The pull-up resistors are above the capacitors for equal drainage (up toward the lead and down to the ground); The choke drives the circuit and is able to retain the lows and highs (Highs that would've been lost to the resistors) -allowing the capacitors to cut primarily highs and mids in a controlled manner I.E. the Varitone; The choke was originally the size of ~1/2 pack of cigarettes but I have no clue who made it (ALTHOUGH, the only transformer/inductor/choke I CAN find today is that of a FENDER AMP [Which would account for the 100K resistor -that functions as a treble-bleed circuit- circled in pink in the lower schematic {My personal Varitone}] which DOES have the proper size and rating of 1.5H). Outside of that, whom made the original components is something I have never been able to find out. Personally, I would go with vintage NOS components that fit the bill. For example: My Varitone will use Mullard "Tropical Fish" NOS caps in ratings that fit my personal playing style, Allen Bradley Carbon composite resistors and a CTS 6-position rotary. The only thing I am unsettled on is the choke. I don't know if I will use the 1.8H rated Bill Lawrence Q-Filter (It's simpler, cheaper and is said to work) or if I will actually try to put a Fender transformer into my guitar. I hope you found this information helpful!!

Bobby

 

Original Gibson Varitone circuit.

 

My personal Varitone circuit.

[bluezguy]

Heya, Bluezguy!!

I know it's a little late in the game but I figured I would chime in... I'm in the process of doing the same thing.

 

Thanks for all that! It ain't too late for info ... I'm still in the search mode as I really DO want to assemble a unit as close to original as possible. Are you installing yours in an external box? I see we have same year 335s.

I gotta tell ya how much I love your part of the world. I rented a house for 1993 in Old Hickory just so I could pound the pavement around Music Row with my works. It's undescribable, the level of talent that inhabits that part of the world ...

[rossington88]

Thanks for all that! It ain't too late for info ... I'm still in the search mode as I really DO want to assemble a unit as close to original as possible. Are you installing yours in an external box? I see we have same year 335s.

 

Hey Bluezguy!!

 

I'm not particularly sure how I'm gonna do it. I've never done this type of work on a 335. I'm thinking that I am going to do things the old fashioned way: Tie some fishing line around something small and heavy (Extra bullet I have kicking around ?) and place that into the guitar through the knob holes so that I can get ahold of it through the bridge pickup hole. I'd then detach the [object] and attach the line to the shaft of the respective pot. When everything is soldered nicely, I'd place the whole assembly into the instrument and just lightly pull the strings. (Excuse the cheeky-ness ) I've never had my whole hand into a guitar but I think that's exactly what's gotta happen to make sure everything lines up properly.

 

As far as the varitone, ipse, goes: I'm not too sure. I've seen them GLUED with a hot-glue adhesive to avoid rattling and such but I am not too sure of the substance's conductivity. I know that the caps go right onto the rotary. I think that if I measure the proper distance between the hot lead and the tespective rotary contacts, I should be able to use standard vintage-style waxed wire -in cloth- sandwhiching the resistors. My only worry is the transformer/inductor/choke. If I go with the Q-Filter: It's nice and light. If I go with the Fender (OR I recently found some by Hammond MFG.): The result will be heavy, which tugs at leads, and bulky, which clangs inside the instrument; Plus, the bulky transforer may not clear the hole alloted in the bridge pickup route . I think that the Q-Filter, though less-than-traditional, may be the more practical way to go. In which case, I will sandwhich it betwixt the rotary's pole and the ground of the closest pot and leave it hanging like the resistors and regular tone caps. Photos of the two are post script!!

 

Also: In my previous schematic, I have a line circled in GREEN. It is a 'phantom line'... WHAT DOES IT DO?! Have you got any insight into that? Every single thing in this entire circuit makes sense to me BUT THAT. What is it potentially able to go to?

 

I rented a house for 1993 in Old Hickory just so I could pound the pavement around Music Row with my works. It's undescribable, the level of talent that inhabits that part of the world ...

 

DUDE!! I can't EVEN believe the talent here. In all honesty, I'm from Connecticut so I'm not-at-all used to this calibre of musician. It's unreal!! Plus, the people are unbelievably friendly

 

Bobby

 

Post Script:

 

Q-Filter

 

 

Hammond Manufacturing

 

[Jhn29]

Another late weigh-in.

 

After similar searching, I found another vendor on eBay who sells a "6 position varitone switch" (search under that or under guitronix-usa). In an e-mail exchange, he said he will match the original values of the Gibson switch, as shown on the PDF above or out of the latest edition of Erlewine's guitar repair book. I'm assuming his choke set-up, though not like the original, accomplishes the same results. At any rate, he's worth a look. He has 1600 positive ratings and sells a number of what look like high-quality items. Let me/us know what you find out.