E-minor7 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 If you are talking about the binding - generally that is just the lacquer aging although a few coats of nicotene can come into play. Back in the good old days, even if you did not smoke, it was hard to avoid acuumulating the stuff on your guitar if you gigged. You will often see the binding scraped bringing it back to white when a top is refinished. In fact I'm talking guards, but yellowed bindings are nice as well. And regarding them, Gibson - maybe not yellowed, but dampened the bindings on the J-45 Standard compared the f.x. the Historic Collection. With good effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Yeah, I love it how the paintwork fades into a consistent, warm yellow over time. I wonder if it could be an idea for the TV models to be painted wholy in yellow, I love that look. With your paintwork JC, the problem is they used a thicker brush than should be and hence why its so blotchy and thick. I think you might be right EA =) . it sure looks that way ... but after all this red guard was a custom job and I guess I have to be greatful that gibson did a lefty red guard ... which is not something they do ever . I've seen a lot of left hbirds from southpaws and all have the brown guard. JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 The one on my 2011 TV, is a similar reddish, honey-clear, material but is is void of those 'swirls' seen in the original, wonder if those developed over time? Yea nice Pic's on OP. We ascertained in a fairly recent post that the new TV guards are indeed made out of a different material than the 60's originals. Sorry can't remember that OP's name..but he too was re-applying an original guard to a 'Bird. having also had 2 HB TV's he was in a position to state the original guards are more reddish/brown than the new..and a lot less ' see through '. So those swirls in the guard are not time based...the new guards will not develop them. I feel we will see many completely paint free HB TV guards 10 years from now... I speeded the process up on mine as some of you may remember. and I like it. The mellowing and yellowing..of the original guards ..is really how I would prefer to see the design...with the swirls inside the material also. To get that look..it seems you will have to buy the vintage guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I feel we will see many completely paint free HB TV guards 10 years from now... Sorry, but doubt it - Bird-keepers are wild about the wildlife. The mellowing and yellowing..of the original guards ..is really how I would prefer to see the design...with the swirls inside the material also. To get that look..it seems you will have to buy the vintage guitar. Yeees, seems we are enough to make a club now, , , or a movement : SWIRLED BROWN MELLOW YELLOW MOTIVED GUARDS BACK ON THE TV HB'S ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GotTheSilver Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Nice to see 'through' the original guard like that. Interesting 'variety' of HB guard materials over the years. My previous 2010 HB classic had a softish guard that had more of a faux turtleshell look and had the image printed below the surface. The one on my 2011 TV, is a similar reddish, honey-clear, material but is is void of those 'swirls' seen in the original, wonder if those developed over time? HB_TV_Pickguard by bobbyjeepyj, on Flickr Call me crazy if you want, but I prefer this newer guard to the vintage ones. I like that it is nice and clear without swirls and that you can see the grain of the spruce top through it! Lovely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Sorry, but doubt it - Bird-keepers are wild about the wildlife. Yeees, seems we are enough to make a club now, , , or a movement : SWIRLED BROWN MELLOW YELLOW MOTIVED GUARDS BACK ON THE TV HB'S ! Oh..I'm definitely a member of the club Em7 the reason I say we will see more paint free guards..is not that player would go down my..( our ) route. But simply the fact the paint will not stay on the new guards..if you tend to touch the PG when playing... well played HB TV's 10 years down the road...many...many will have lots of paint missing from the design. and more players may take a decision to to even up the design..as I did..even if not a well played HB TV...10 years from now...alot of the design will be missing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Interestingly.. with our recent debate about the Hummingbird..and finger picking..I just checked out a tutorial course mentioned by j45nick in another thread Learn and Master Fingerpicking by Steve Krenz it looks like it will be very good..and what guiatr do they have on the front of the CD's A Hummingbird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Oh..I'm definitely a member of the club Em7 the reason I say we will see more paint free guards..is not that player would go down my..( our ) route. But simply the fact the paint will not stay on the new guards..if you tend to touch the PG when playing... well played HB TV's 10 years down the road...many...many will have lots of paint missing from the design. and more players may take a decision to to even up the design..as I did..even if not a well played HB TV...10 years from now...alot of the design will be missing.. Sure sure, I read you Del - but you know only some of the scenery fades. My Birds beak and head are slowly vanishing, , , the beak-groove a bit dirty. . . In fact I think I'll gently clean it up right now to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Sure sure, I read you Del - but you know only some of the scenery fades. My Birds beak and head are slowly vanishing, , , the beak-groove a bit dirty. . . In fact I think I'll gently clean it up right now to see what happens. Indeed :) Depends on the player and where the guard is being..rubbed...hit..brushed...caressed. Maybe these TV's 10/20 yrs down the road will be identifiable by the missing/ faded designs..maybe even sought after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 a well played HB TV...10 years from now...alot of the design will be missing.. And people will looking for those (now new) 'birds with just the right amount of playwear on the pickguard, just like a modest form of lacquer checking has become the current hallmark of a "true" vintage finish...... On the other hand, maybe a lot of people will be buying old 'birds to try to get those great 60's pickguards, just like people today buy worn-out late 50's-early 60's ES models with busted headstocks and gut them for their original PAF humbuckers and wiring harnesses..... A guitar is a tool. If you use use it, it will show wear over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 And people will looking for those (now new) 'birds with just the right amount of playwear on the pickguard, just like a modest form of lacquer checking has become the current hallmark of a "true" vintage finish...... On the other hand, maybe a lot of people will be buying old 'birds to try to get those great 60's pickguards, just like people today buy worn-out late 50's-early 60's ES models with busted headstocks and gut them for their original PAF humbuckers and wiring harnesses..... A guitar is a tool. If you use use it, it will show wear over time. Well spoken Nick - we had that precious-vintage-fade angle up before and I see it comin'. It's almost in the nature of the game now the German panzer paint, conquered during the Battle of Bulge and brought back over the Atlantic in the autumn of 1945*, is past. *This was a bold example of mindless history-falsification - just needed to say panzer paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 *This was a bold example of mindless history-falsification - just needed to say panzer paint. The words just have a certain ring to them, don't they? (Tried to write some lyrics around them, but they came out sort of strange. Couldn't get much to rhyme with "panzer paint" that didn't sound a bit too forced.... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 And people will looking for those (now new) 'birds with just the right amount of playwear on the pickguard, just like a modest form of lacquer checking has become the current hallmark of a "true" vintage finish...... I'd agree with that, people expect a gentle aging with quality goods, especially instruments, if it's too new we're suspicious, personally I'd rather see the wear n tear and muted hues on a TV style guard than the vivid design of the standards that won't wear or fade. When you see one they're quite beautiful, when you see a well played one they look great. I doubt I'd go down the same route as Del by enhancing the amount of fade, but I wont be upset if it starts to fade more than the current level of paint wear. I can see what he was going for though and I guess it matters little if he's speeded up what would happen anyway, we'll see over time as these pieces get another few years on them. Mines was still pristine about 2 months ago, but it's been getting more attention recently. It now looks like this: A guitar is a tool. If you use use it, it will show wear over time. I guess that's what it comes down to (reductionist statement). It seems ironic that those looking to maintain a pristine finish are so drawn to nitro, a finish known to wear and 'modern vintage techniques' such as those sported by guards on TV Birds and SJ200's. Wouldn't some modern poly coat deliver more on that front? Certainly wouldn't choose that myself, but it's no secret that nitro guitars and engraved/painted guards are going to fade & crack. If fades and/or cracks are going to be an issue the TV model probably isn't the best buy for that customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 That bloody German panzer paint is enough to make the dancer faint It's more than what you call absurd - he'll never play his vintage Bird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 That bloody German panzer paint is enough to make the dancer faint It's more than what you call absurd - he'll never play his vintage Bird You win, you win. I should have known that a songwriter/poet like you would figure it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Call me crazy if you want, but I prefer this newer guard to the vintage ones. I like that it is nice and clear without swirls and that you can see the grain of the spruce top through it! Lovely! I like both of em =D ... but lefty's arent that lucky . take a look at these Iceteaburst birds this righty has a bright red with no swirl : this lefty bird has the brownish red guard with swirls : so I guess righty's will always envy righty players JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby b Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I like both of em =D ... but lefty's arent that lucky . take a look at these Iceteaburst birds this righty has a bright red with no swirl : this lefty bird has the brownish red guard with swirls : so I guess righty's will always envy righty players JC Naw, methinks those lefty pics show the 'faux tortoise shell' version. The original has more of 'wispy.. smoke' type swirl embedded into a thick molded plastic material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Agree Bobby the lefty is fitted with the 'Standard' new guard.. with the design embedded into it. We have also learnt , I believe, that the original guards being a different composite material than the TV's, this material is slightly more porous than what is currently used, allowing the infamous Panzer Paint to 'stick' much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 We have also learnt , I believe, that the original guards being a different composite material than the TV's, this material is slightly more porous than what is currently used, allowing the infamous Panzer Paint to 'stick' much better. Good point, but you'd think with it being porous the older design would be likely to bleed a little more than it tends to, like black tattoos if you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I like both of em =D ... but lefty's arent that lucky . take a look at these Iceteaburst birds this righty has a bright red with no swirl : this lefty bird has the brownish red guard with swirls : so I guess righty's will always envy righty players JC JC the righty is a TV model..while the lefty is a custom shop... different tuners..no Hummingbird motif on TRC..and indeed Custom badge on back of headstock if the new standard guards have the image imbedded in them...then they could just flip them around to fit a lefty..no ? its early morning and my brain is may not be working as yet :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Good point, but you'd think with it being porous the older design would be likely to bleed a little more than it tends to, like black tattoos if you know what I mean. heheh... i know what ya mean PM I don't think they are that porous though :) just enough to let the paint stick better. It has been a bit of an ongoing debate.. but I think we have solved the slight mystery aspect to it ! ? They must be using the new material for all the pick guards with the designs on them one would think. The SJ's and your pics showing the fading design ( I noticed EA's bird is showing some missing design also in his recent vid ) With the success of the TV line..maybe Gibson will en devour to keep experimenting with the guards and different materials..till they can have a longer lasting design ? and like I say..20 years from now..the missing designs of the TV's may be a sought after thing :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 heheh... i know what ya mean PM I don't think they are that porous though :) just enough to let the paint stick better. It has been a bit of an ongoing debate.. but I think we have solved the slight mystery aspect to it ! ? They must be using the new material for all the pick guards with the designs on them one would think. The SJ's and your pics showing the fading design ( I noticed EA's bird is showing some missing design also in his recent vid ) With the success of the TV line..maybe Gibson will en devour to keep experimenting with the guards and different materials..till they can have a longer lasting design ? and like I say..20 years from now..the missing designs of the TV's may be a sought after thing :) Unless we're on truer than true double vintage by then... on the other hand some of these may look more vintage than a vintage piece in 20-30 years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Unless we're on truer than true double vintage by then... on the other hand some of these may look more vintage than a vintage piece in 20-30 years time. Yes, these guitars - motif survived or not - will appear as absolute king-stunners in 20-30 years time. Hope I'll be around to catch a glimpse of it - and hear some picking too. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Naw, methinks those lefty pics show the 'faux tortoise shell' version. The original has more of 'wispy.. smoke' type swirl embedded into a thick molded plastic material. Bobby , yes correct , I'm comparing these two because there aren't that many Hbird TV's done for lefty players . I have one and Anne another forum member has another but none have the smooth Red guard the righty TV's have. mine is red but not smooth ... hers is the standard brown version I think . here's a picture of mine the first time it got to Fuller's they got the color totally wrong so they took it back to montana and refinished it . that's when I asked for the different Red Guard : JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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