onewilyfool Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 So here's the scenario,.......I remember one forumite put up pics of a guitar, I believe it was an Epiphone Masterworks, guitar that he had his luthier "age" and "distress" to look old. Now whether you agree with it or not, the job was pretty good, and one good thing was that you don't have to worry about the first scratch....lol.....in any case, locally, a guy is selling a Martin, with a BIG scratch on the front of the guitar, otherwise in perfect shape. He is selling at quite a discount, soooooo, I'm thinking, why not get this and have some fun with this, aging it with abandon.....having a perfect guitar, and a beater in one fell swoop, and never having to worry about the first scratch......could be a fun, cheap project to get good sounding "player" with no worries.....What do you think??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 It should be one of my HD-28V's then – the one with the crack down mid-seam from bridge to bottom, , , the best of the 2, the one not for sale. The thing is that during summer this crack disappears – only to return when winter pulls the wood. I've been wondering what to do – fix it or let it breathe back and forth every year. One thing is for certain – a bit weird to have that rather damaged (then not damaged) guitar in the herd. Maybe just let it be, take it easy with that one, don't trash it, but enjoy the 'freedom' this crack allows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Some form of relicing might not a bad idea if the price is right, imho. A lot of different ways a person could approach that, depending on the scratch and it's severity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Have to add I have a bad thing with false mojo - it's too phony. Especially when trying to sing an honest song - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I have a feeling there is a general paranoia about cracks. Like its the same of a front on collision that needs a total relpacement. When in reality its more of a minor dent or scratch that doesn't impact the performance. In reality if the crack doesn't get bigger it probvably doesn't matter if it gets fixed or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Have to add I have a bad thing with false mojo - it's too phony. Especially when trying to sing an honest song - Why? It's nothing more than a finish option. The most famous relic guitars out there have a lot more to do with roadies, groupies, general shenanigans and misbehaviour than some BS idea of paying dues and people wearing that down with hard work treading the boards... Paying dues is another way of saying rubbish songs for too many years. As to finishes, can you post me a link to a sunburst tree? or a honeyburst tree? Bottom line, it's a finish option, nothing more, nothing less. Bringing 'honesty' into it comes across as a form of snootiness. Sorry.... I have a feeling there is a general paranoia about cracks. Like its the same of a front on collision that needs a total relpacement. When in reality its more of a minor dent or scratch that doesn't impact the performance. In reality if the crack doesn't get bigger it probvably doesn't matter if it gets fixed or not. Amen, EA. I sometimes shake my head at the sheer OCD on display on forums, some folk ought to buy a bling-bling model, never touch it, lock it away in glass cases in the dark. It's a guitar, they get battered and bruised down the years, some get battered and bruised in a factory controlled environment, they sound great, end of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Bringing 'honesty' into it comes across as a form of snootiness. Sorry.... Really think so, , , get real ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Really think so, , , get real ! No point in us fighting about it Em7, I'm just saying you're openly questioning someones integrity because they prefer a bit of a junkyard look, would you say that to Bruce Springsteen? His famous relic was maybe 3rd hand and already relic'd when he bought it... Would you say it to Keef? Who has plenty of CS relic models, John Mayer (well he's a bit of a dobber anyway so yes to John Mayer) but see where I'm going? The guy down the pub is as entitled to cosmetic preferences as the next man is he not? So, ye got that link to a sunburst/honeyburst tree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 No point in us fighting about it Em7, I might have misunderstood the OP, not sure. What I know is that phony aging or wear is out of the Q. for my part. My former guitarist did some, I guess - never commented it. If Springsteen and Richards were my pals and showed me a pseudo-mojo-job, I would tell them the what I think. Most of them may have fake here and there, , , what do I care, , , not my alley. . . Next Q. in line would be : Was Keith's missing tooth in the early 70's the real thing or just a weak one painted black. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 What I know is that phony aging or wear is out of the Q. for my part. what do I care, , , not my alley. . . These (above) are quite different from... Have to add I have a bad thing with false mojo - it's too phony. Especially when trying to sing an honest song - You're mellowing... Isn't all 'mojo' false? When aged by time and bought you're buying someone elses wear & tear, but that gets called a 'story'.. Take the romance., the paying yer dues nonsense away and what is it? ..a finish option. Guitarists are such a conservative lot, isn't music, performance and the arts supposed to be about free expression? Or is it just guitarists looking for a reason to call other guitarists a poseur, a fake, a phony. Comes across that way a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 It should be one of my HD-28V's then – the one with the crack down mid-seem from bridge to bottom, , , the best of the 2, the one not for sale. The thing is that during summer this crack disappears – only to return when winter pulls the wood. I've been wondering what to do – fix it or let it breathe back and forth every year. One thing is for certain – a bit weird to have that rather damaged (then not damaged) guitar in the herd. Maybe just let it be, take it easy with that one, don't trash it, but enjoy the 'freedom' this crack allows. I would consider getting the crack properly cleated during the summer, when the top has made up. Wood can absorb a surprising amount of come and go without further damage, but something as thin as the top, sides or back of a guitar may eventually crack along the weakest grain line or glue joint if it is exposed to humidity extremes over time. You probably don't want to glue it while the crack is open, as tempting as that might be, as that might cause finish problems when the top makes back up. It's tricky to figure out at what point in the shrink/swell cycle to glue it, if you decide to do that. It probably hasn't gone past the bridge because the bridge is functioning just like a cleat would. The center seam on the back of a guitar is cleated for a purpose. When the two halves of a back (or top) are glued together, you have a tiny glue joint that is backed up by the much larger gluing surface under the cleat on the inside of the back (and the braces on top and back, of course). The top doesn't lend itself to a full-length cleat without interfering a bit with both the braces and the resonance of the top. You have a good luthier you trust, so why don't you just get him to have a look at it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Bought my J-45TV with a 14 inch crack already in the side, cleated, proceeded to play in the hot sun and put a 2 inch crack in the top, now cleated and blended. I'll just play the bejeebers out of this thing, figuring its well on its way to the relic look all on its own. I don't think I'd ever have the propensity to do any of it on purpose though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Bought my J-45TV with a 14 inch crack already in the side, cleated, proceeded to play in the hot sun and put a 2 inch crack in the top, now cleated and blended. I'll just play the bejeebers out of this thing, figuring its well on its way to the relic look all on its own. I don't think I'd ever have the propensity to do any of it on purpose though. At least if you sell it Dan you can say it's a guitar with a "story" as opposed to opening up your eBay blurb with "This phony guitar is not suitable for an honest song". :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I say go for it OWF. What's the harm - it won't hurt anyone and as long as it doesn't cost much it could be a bit of fun. Lookin forward to pics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 It's tricky to figure out at what point in the shrink/swell cycle to glue it, if you decide to do that. Exactly - You have a good luthier you trust, so why don't you just get him to have a look at it? In fact there are about 3 under-seam cleats already - and they just seem to accept the rhythm also. Talked to 2 luthiers. They told me to let it be - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 PM – you sound as if you are warming up to a hot night in town. Go for it, , , and get that chick alrite. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Well let me throw this at you boys, in terms is this considered 'phoney' aging or legitimate 'technique' Frantisek Furch uses some enzyme or god knows what, but basically it has an impact that transforms the top wood to have the same properties of a top wood that is 80 years old, and responds and sounds accordingly. Below is a further description. So my question is this considered 'phoney' or a credible approach to how the top looks and sounds ? If you look at my 'aged' OM which had gone through this treatment it certainly looks like an aged top, and from playing it definitely does have a lot of vintage tonal properties. From Furch / Stonebridge he “Vintage Aging” Process While this is heavily guarded here is what we can divulge regarding this breakthrough technology. A special organic culture is created and allowed to interact with the wood which breaks down only the soft tissues within the cells. This genuinely duplicates the natural aging process mentioned above but at a highly accelerated rate. Once this process is complete the wood is free and clear of all the soft tissues and allowed to resonate without any hindrance so all the woods tone and warmth come out in full. But wait...there is more! The wood becomes non-hygroscopic, which means it won’t take on moisture and is unaffected by changes in relative humidity; therefore enhancing its stability. As well this process darkens the patina just like a naturally aged piece of wood. So not only does it sound vintage it looks it too! With Stonebridge “Vintage Aged” tops you can now have that ‘old time’ tone so many guitar players long for. An affordable, world class instrument that can actually be played and taken to gigs and not stored in a glass case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I think the acceleration / aging Stonebridge process has more, intellectually, to do with the cellular properties of the wood, in an attempt to affect tonal characteristics. A bit more involved than say, bone pins, but an approach that I would say is much different than the cosmetic acceleration of aging for appearance sake. That being said - my ears and my brain shift into "that sounds pretty good" mode when I see and hear an "old guitar" being played - not sure if it really matters if its actually decades old - I think my mind just automatically gives the guitar credence. I might buy one that has this sort of finish, but i don't think I'd do it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 If I bought a guitar like Mr. Fool is talking about I would probably go see if I could have the scratch buffed out or something and then the area touched up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 If I bought a guitar like Mr. Fool is talking about I would probably go see if I could have the scratch buffed out or something and then the area touched up. That's exactly what I have done on a number of occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 PM – you sound as if you are warming up to a hot night in town. Go for it, , , and get that chick alrite. . . Not at all, Em7, a chilled night in the house looking after my wee dogs actually. I only pointed out that you were using strong terms on a finish option because it doesn't appeal to you. The distaste for it is fine, but the integrity judgements are a bit heavy handed. When somebody can show me a tree that looks like a J-45 or any other finished guitar for that matter I may change my opinion, until then it's all just a finish option. No more, no less. You said earlier "I'd tell them what I think" when referencing a guitar you didn't like visually, seems you're annoyed by hearing what I think.... Surely we've all got a chance to voice our thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I only pointed out that you were using strong terms on a finish option because it doesn't appeal to you. Pleased to have met your sensitive side - now shall we stop wasting patient co-members time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Pleased to have met your sensitive side - now shall we stop wasting patient co-members time ? I believe in getting into hot water. I think it keeps you clean. Gilbert Keith Chesterton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 So here's the scenario,.......I remember one forumite put up pics of a guitar, I believe it was an Epiphone Masterworks, guitar that he had his luthier "age" and "distress" to look old. Now whether you agree with it or not, the job was pretty good, and one good thing was that you don't have to worry about the first scratch....lol.....in any case, locally, a guy is selling a Martin, with a BIG scratch on the front of the guitar, otherwise in perfect shape. He is selling at quite a discount, soooooo, I'm thinking, why not get this and have some fun with this, aging it with abandon.....having a perfect guitar, and a beater in one fell swoop, and never having to worry about the first scratch......could be a fun, cheap project to get good sounding "player" with no worries.....What do you think??? All good in theory BUT When you have had your laughs and try to sell it on? Can be tricky.....or you could end up with another 'slide' guitar. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 When you have had your laughs and try to sell it on? Can be tricky.....or you could end up with another 'slide' guitar. Very fair point, any resale is going to take a punch. It's not a vintage Gibson or Martin, people are less forgiving for reasons mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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