Do you think string throughs are better?

[Rabs]

What do you guys reckon on this one?

 

Ive been thinking about my build and am wondering if I should use a traditional Gibson type set up with a Tailstop (or is it stoptail? Does it even matter :P) or do it, as I have seen with some other makes where the strings go through the body and you put them in from the back.

 

What I think, is that having the strings go through the body can only help with regards to how the body picks up the vibrations and resonates.. However in saying that, if the technique is that good why doesnt Gibson use it? (or is that just a traditional thing?)

 

like this

 

I have even thought of doing both.. having a tailstop that then goes through the body.. Or is that just crazy talk?? :) (I have no idea if that will do anything at all).

 

Any ideas or suggestions welcome.. (Im probably gonna go for a LP Double Cut shape)

[Ryan H]

I would say that one major difference between the two is break angle over the saddle. With a stopbar, you can lower the bridge to get low action, and lower the stopbar to preserve the break angle of the strings over the saddle. With stringing through the body, you have to choose where you want to anchor the strings and you're stuck with it. That said, you can achieve a sharper break angle with this method.

 

One advantage to anchoring through the body is you can stagger the holes for different strings. For example, if you do a lot of bending on let's say the G string, you can move that hole back further, creating a shallower break angle, which will make the string feel "slinkier" (to use Ernie Ball terms :P). This is just an example.

 

And if the length behind the bridge is enough, you can get that "behind the bridge" plinky sound :P

 

So basically, it's all personal preference. Personally I would go for a wraparound bridge, but that's just me :P.

 

-Ryan

 

P.S. that's a sweet looking ML-2 reissue ;)

[Rabs]

I would say that one major difference between the two is break angle over the saddle. With a stopbar, you can lower the bridge to get low action, and lower the stopbar to preserve the break angle of the strings over the saddle. With stringing through the body, you have to choose where you want to anchor the strings and you're stuck with it. That said, you can achieve a sharper break angle with this method.

 

One advantage to anchoring through the body is you can stagger the holes for different strings. For example, if you do a lot of bending on let's say the G string, you can move that hole back further, creating a shallower break angle, which will make the string feel "slinkier" (to use Ernie Ball terms :P). This is just an example.

 

And if the length behind the bridge is enough, you can get that "behind the bridge" plinky sound :P

 

So basically, it's all personal preference. Personally I would go for a wraparound bridge, but that's just me :P.

 

-Ryan

 

P.S. that's a sweet looking ML-2 reissue ;)

Yeah ive seen that staggered body through holes like the L6S type thing

 

So you dont think it makes any difference to the sound or resonance?

[Ryan H]

So you dont think it makes any difference to the sound or resonance?

 

I'm sure it does make a difference. In the same way that open strings (anchored at the bone/plastic/corian nut) sound different from fretted notes (anchored at the corresponding metal fret), a string anchored to a metal stoptail will sound different than one anchored through wood. Steel tends to accentuate the highs and lows, leaving the midrange fairly hollow, while anchoring through the wood body (especially woods like mahogany, oak e.c.t.) should accentuate the mid and lower mid frequencies.

 

This is all just speculation. I've played guitars with both setups, so this is just my experience. Take it for what you think it's worth.

 

-Ryan

[Rabs]

I'm sure it does make a difference. In the same way that open strings (anchored at the bone/plastic/corian nut) sound different from fretted notes (anchored at the corresponding metal fret), a string anchored to a metal stoptail will sound different than one anchored through wood. Steel tends to accentuate the highs and lows, leaving the midrange fairly hollow, while anchoring through the wood body (especially woods like mahogany, oak e.c.t.) should accentuate the mid and lower mid frequencies.

 

This is all just speculation. I've played guitars with both setups, so this is just my experience. Take it for what you think it's worth.

 

-Ryan

Thats exactly the sort of response I was hoping for so thanks for that

 

And yeah I know its all down to personal preference, but in this case not only is this my first guitar build but as far as I know the wood is Pine which I know little about. And I have had a quick look and cant find too much about guitars made of pine apart from some people have used it in the past (I read that old Teles are made from Pine).. So im expecting quite a thin sound from it in that way, but have no real way of telling what its going to sound like as I will be constructing it more similar to a Les Paul (so will be much thicker than any Tele). The plus to the wood im using is that ive heard with ANY wood used that age is a factor and usually older wood sounds better. The wood im using is from a 40+ year old door (so fingers crossed).

 

So all of this is guess work really :)

 

I intend to have a Humbucker at the Bridge and a P90 at the neck.. So it will I guess depend on the wood and I wont know till I try.

[AXE®]

[pippy]

My initial thought would be that string-through-body - even with metal ferrules as used by Fender and others - would allow the wood to absorb and cancel-out a certain amount of string vibration and resonance; even although very little of either should be present in this area.

 

Stop-tail would be my choice.

 

No science behind my blind prejudice, of course.

 

P.

[AXE®]

When the rest of the band kicks in can you really tell the difference?

[Valeriy]

It seems AXE believes that all this is catching fleas. :) And it seems I agree with him.

[ZenKen]

When the rest of the band kicks in can you really tell the difference?

 

 

Only with Bubinga topped Koa bodies.

[Rabs]

When the rest of the band kicks in can you really tell the difference?

So are you saying you think all guitars sound the same? (because I do disagree with that)

 

What I am trying to do is find out if it makes any difference to the tone as in, if it will make it more bassy or something like that.. I agree once distorted and playing with a band that tone differences are minimal BUT I can say tell the difference between a single coiled Fender and a double coiled Gibson .. But I dont play with a band (at the moment) and do use clean sounds in the music I make at home..

 

To me if the sound source is rounded and sounds good, your recording will sound good.. And even if you can make it all up in processing and editing, I just think you cant beat a good sound from your source recording with.

 

Ive played some bad guitars before that just sound flat and have no punch at all.. thats a big reason why we all buy Gibsons isnt it? for the sound?

[ZenKen]

I'm no scientist but let's look at the physics. You pluck a string and disrupt the magnetic field emanating from the pickup magnets. This disruption is converted to an electronic signal that moves to the coil of your speaker at something approaching the speed of light (ok, resistance in the circuit and some other stuff that none of us but rocketman really understands slows it down a bunch but it's still real fast). That's why you hear the note seemingly simultaneous to the pluck. Now any vibration that will make it to the top, bottom, middle (u pick it) of the wooden guitar body will move through air at something less than the speed of sound (you don't hear a little sonic boom do you?). By the time any effect is imparted to that vibration by any part of the guitar you'll be into the chorus. In an electric guitar played through an amp it's all in the electronics boys and girls. And yes, I'm in the 10%.

[AXE®]

Kinda goes back to - Topwrapping. This gauge of string or that.

 

No they all don't sound the same. Just ask the rest of the band. And yourself. Is it going to make a noticeable difference.

 

All of my Les Paul's are set up almost identically. And no two sound alike. So after you do the math.

 

Is it really going to make a difference?

 

One string through may sound great, another may sound like a 55 gallon drum of smashed arseholes.

[ZenKen]

Couple of extra turns on the pup winder, different pot values, a bad solder point, a little extra crud on a G string. Yep, they all sound different

[Rabs]

Kinda goes back to - Topwrapping. This gauge of string or that.

 

No they all don't sound the same. Just ask the rest of the band. And yourself. Is it going to make a noticeable difference.

 

All of my Les Paul's are set up almost identically. And no two sound alike. So after you do the math.

 

Is it really going to make a difference?

 

One string through may sound great, another may sound like a 55 gallon drum of smashed arseholes.

Lol.. yeah I do agree.. It depends on the individual guitar...

 

And the only reason I am asking is cos I am trying to make one so am considering all the options.. If after posting this everyone came back to me and said YES it does make a difference and will help etc etc.. I would have done it without question..

 

But as ever we have all sorts here so I should know what to expect by now :P So I guess I will just have to see where it takes me.. I will probably just go with the usual stoptail setup.. But we will see :)

[AXE®]

Understood.

 

Buy the time the signal reaches the amp these "vibrations" can be measured in nano's milli's & micro's.

[Valeriy]

Rabs, you correctly told that there is the difference between a single coiled Fender and a double coiled Gibson. And if to develop this thought pickups play defining role. Body of course also affects the sound. But it is as a slave (unlike an acoustic guitar) so to speak. Therefore tricks with the body (also pasted neck or monolithic body with) this is only insignificant influence on the sound as regards electric guitars in comparison with influence of pickups, in my opinion. I.e. stop-tail it is more as Gibson's individual schtick in design as well as these are strings through the body in Fender's individual design.

[stein]

I'm no scientist but let's look at the physics. You pluck a string and disrupt the magnetic field emanating from the pickup magnets. This disruption is converted to an electronic signal that moves to the coil of your speaker at something approaching the speed of light (ok, resistance in the circuit and some other stuff that none of us but rocketman really understands slows it down a bunch but it's still real fast). That's why you hear the note seemingly simultaneous to the pluck. Now any vibration that will make it to the top, bottom, middle (u pick it) of the wooden guitar body will move through air at something less than the speed of sound (you don't hear a little sonic boom do you?). By the time any effect is imparted to that vibration by any part of the guitar you'll be into the chorus. In an electric guitar played through an amp it's all in the electronics boys and girls. And yes, I'm in the 10%.

The problem with this hypothesis is while it does take into acount facts, it also omits facts.

 

Before the pickups read the signal from the string, the string makes the sound. And regardless of WHEN it reads it, it will still read any sound from the string. Any sound the string makes is a result of what it is attached to, be it wood, steel, or plastic.

 

So while the pickups MAY only be picking up the sound of the string, it does not mean the string is not affected by the wood of the guitar. It may be electric, and it may be influenced by the electronics, but 100% of the signal IS taken from the 'accoustic' properties of the string making the sound.

 

For example, if you take the exact same electronics and strings off your Les Paul and hack them into a J-45 or something, do you expect it to not sound very different?

 

So, while an electronic signal may be fast at the point of close to the speed of light, it really means that slower vibrations and resonences are tranfered almost as fast as they occur. A faster "reading" device INCLUDES slower wavelenghts, father than EXCLUDES them as you thoerize.

[ZenKen]

The pickup does not pickup sound. The vibrating metal string disrupts the magnetic field. This disruption is converted to a signal and away we go. And forgive me but I postulated no theory.

[AXE®]

Too-Many-Big-Words.

[ZenKen]

I got a million of em!

[RaysEpiphone]

While I would agree that the basics behind an electric guitar is that the pick-up's change physical wave-forms that are created by the size/shape/speed of the string's to electrical currant. I would also add that the body of an electric guitar will resonate to create wave-forms that will enhance the tone and sustain of the out-putted sound. This tone/sustain varies from the wood type's it is made of.

 

I have a genuine Gibson SG pick-up on my Ibanez SA 120. It's a basic Strat shaped body but it's made of mahogany wood so it does sound a lot like an SG, but it doesn't have 50 miles of sustain like a Les Paul, I do admit that my amp (Marshall Class 5) give's it some balls but it really can't compare to good Les Paul.

 

And as for the string-thru design compared to a bridge type, I've had both over the years but I can't say there was a huge difference in the sound or tone etc. It was a pain in the butt to fish the strings thru the bridge as one of the one's I had was like that and would some times get stuck on the saddle's because thats where the holes where located.

[stein]

The pickup does not pickup sound. The vibrating metal string disrupts the magnetic field. This disruption is converted to a signal and away we go. And forgive me but I postulated no theory.

I understand your thoery to be that the wood has no effect on what is heard through an amplified (electrically) signal.

 

I understand your hypothesis is that sinse electricity 'tranfers' faster than soundwaves, that it does not transmit the soundwaves present in an electric guitar.

 

Neither is correct. BUT, I appreciate the way you have constructed the scenario technically.

 

Also, you are mistaken that a pickup does not pickup sound. It does pickup string vibrations yes, but these vibrations ARE sound. And, it works on the same principle as a microphone does, it just dispences with the diaphram that moves creating the altering magnetic field.

 

Any "sound" present in the string IS picked up by the pickup.

[Izzy]

I've always thought those "string goes into the body" guitars were ugly. Science aside and sound aside, just looks yuch.

 

I reckon, if it made a real difference, as sound goes, Gibson and Fender would have made them the standard ages ago. I bet it don't make no difference.

[stein]

I've always thought those "string goes into the body" guitars were ugly. Science aside and sound aside, just looks yuch.

 

I reckon, if it made a real difference, as sound goes, Gibson and Fender would have made them the standard ages ago. I bet it don't make no difference.

Tele?

 

Technically, if the first solid was the first guitar that you COULD do a string-through, then they have existed sinse the beginning of time. But evolution has all but wiped them out.

 

Science agrees with you.