Sophie' choice dlemma ..... HELP !!!

[EuroAussie]

Let me just catch my breath, where do I begin...

 

So here's the thing. I visited today another guitar shop back home here in Oz which opened up a couple years ago.

 

I knew they had some tasty guitars which focused mainly on vintage variety, but my jaw dropped when I got in there.

 

This is what they had in stock and what I played.

36' OJ

43' Banner J-45

44' Banner SJ

46' SJ

51' SJ

64' Hummingbird

 

I played all of them for hours, they were ALL magnificent, had a long chat with the owner and he cherry picks his guitars from all over the US, and these models really prove it.

 

And .... I utterly, utterly fell in love with the 46' SJ.

 

I've never heard a Gibson like this. The others were amazing but this one was just the absolute dogs bollocks of all Gibsons Ive come across, and Ive had a chance to play quite a few 40's and 50's specimens by now and generally was underwhelmed. My best guitar in the stable is the Aaron Lewis SJ, which is about 50% better than the 2nd in line. Well this SJ is about 200% better than the Aaron, just to put things into perspective. It made the Brazilian 54' D-28 from yesterday sound like an Estaban in comparisement .... , almost.

 

The specs are basically that its an unbound SJ, with a 1 3/4 nut width, wide string spacing and a baseball bat neck which, much to my surprise I totally fell for.

 

The tone .... dear lord .... the bottom end as we know with these old ladies is exquisite, deep, rich, woody, complex. The mids are cracking and the highs just sweet, sweet. Incredibly responsive and excelling in all approachs, strumming, flatpicking and fingerpickin.

 

So here's the Sophies Choice dilemma.

 

The price is $8k ... which I cant afford.

 

It would mean I would have to sell at least 3 of the other Gibsons to fund this. The SWD, the 69'er for sure, and either the AJ or the Aaron SJ.

 

Now, this is quite feasable as my long term goal was to have simply single oustanding specimens of a Gibson jumbo, square and shoulder dreads. I think Im there with the first two with the J-150 and HB-TV and this 46's SJ would round it off.

 

But on the other hand it wold be so sad, sad to part with the Aaron or the AJ..

 

So .... folks, and serious here, would you give up three Gibsons to get the Holy Grail ... advice needed ....Im sure I will ignore it, but tell me anyway ....

 

Here's a pic of the 44' Banner SJ on the right and my holy grail on the left, the 46' SJ. btw: structurally they are both in A1 shape.

 

I was strong enough not to get the plastic out this time but Im returning there again for another go after Xmas

 

[flatbaroque]

geez mate , you make me want to fly to Adelaide!

[EuroAussie]

geez mate , you make me want to fly to Adelaide!

 

 

Yes !!! Come down and we can go guitar shopping together, im here for another 2.5 weeks, lets go crazy ! :-)

[flatbaroque]

haha...maybe we can buy it on a time share basis!

[ParlourMan]

Holy Grail?? Ye gotta do it man, I'll take the AJ off yer hands perhaps. If yer sold on this we can have a chat on PM's about the AJ.

 

Glad you liked the big necks, superb eh? One vintage feature I wish more current models sported more.

[E-minor7]

200 % is many %.

 

If it really feels like that, I'd say go ahead. There are some guitars that stand out or step up on a level where you just don't get that often, if ever again. They can't be left behind.

It was how I got my 1953 J-45 almost 1 1/2 year ago tho I just bought a 1950 - simply couldn't justify to let it pass and it has only improved since. It'll never leave.

 

A wild situation there (Forum-candy) and I see the dilemma.

 

But 200 % is many % !

[E-minor7]

Of course I wish you could tell a little about that Bird -

[EuroAussie]

Of course I wish you could tell a little about that Bird -

 

Ah yes, the Bird .... in pristine condition, was a bit like looking at my HB TV, except with that lovelly caramel yellow pickguard thats developed over time.

 

The thing that struck me was how similar it sounded to my HB-TV. The bottom end was mellower and softer from the age, but overall the necktar 'levels' were quite consistent with the modern version.

 

The neck was disappointing after playing the 40's SJ's baseball bat neck. 1 11/16 and low profile felt really cramped I must say.

 

But overall I didnt find the Bird' to be in the same league compared to its SJ cousins.

[E-minor7]

Ah yes, the Bird .... in pristine condition, was a bit like looking at my HB TV, except with that lovelly caramel yellow pickguard thats developed over time.

 

The thing that struck me was how similar it sounded to my HB-TV. The bottom end was mellower and softer from the age, but overall the necktar 'levels' were quite consistent with the modern version.

 

 

 

So no trace of what I could call my 1963 SJ prob. = Slightly over-dry thus strangely hollow or porous-boomey from G string to high E in standard tuning -

[BluesKing777]

 

Yes !!! Come down and we can go guitar shopping together, im here for another 2.5 weeks, lets go crazy ! :-)

 

 

 

Hee Hee Me Too!

 

 

Many, many hours drive on the worst possible weekend to drive anywhere in Australia plus 1 hour flight on the Virgin, I could be there with my black jeans, RayBans and black Gibson T-Shirt to help! Probably frighten the life out of the little Aaaaadelaidian Guitar Salesman!

 

What is the name of the guitar shop, EA? I could be there before you wake tomorrow and you know, boom, gone......

(Kidding - I just had a NGD that nobody here would like at ALL!)

 

And what is that price tag on the arm of the chair that says $13,999? Is that for the Banner SJ?

 

Surely it would be cheaper to go to the States on the way home and go to Matt Uminov's or such....but I suppose LOVE is LOVE......

 

 

BluesKing777.

[Del Nilppeznaf]

haha

 

You know your buying this guitar EA... thats some review of it.

 

If it still feels that good when you go back..you GOT to have it..

 

Couple of things to bear in mind though

 

How are you gonna get it back to Prague ?... if you wanna carry it on the plane..then make sure you get it packed in shipping box and its well protected.. I can't see them letting you actually carry it in the cabin..it will go in hold..and I'd pay extra to have it insured/carried in the correct manner.

 

The other thing ...

 

well we want pictures and sound clips at the earliest connivance..haha

 

All the best EA

[EuroAussie]

haha

 

You know your buying this guitar EA... thats some review of it.

 

If it still feels that good when you go back..you GOT to have it..

 

Couple of things to bear in mind though

 

How are you gonna get it back to Prague ?... if you wanna carry it on the plane..then make sure you get it packed in shipping box and its well protected.. I can't see them letting you actually carry it in the cabin..it will go in hold..and I'd pay extra to have it insured/carried in the correct manner.

 

The other thing ...

 

well we want pictures and sound clips at the earliest connivance..haha

 

All the best EA

 

 

Yes, getting it back to Prague is the other major issue Del, thought about that too, and it is an issue.

 

In flying Qantas and theyre generally a bunch of Natzis when it comes to getting instruments onboard. (unlike the Lufthansa girls who swapped a peformance on board for letting me take the guitar onbard)

 

However the owner will give me a flightcase in returns as it arrived in that case from the previous owner (apparently living in North Carolina).

 

BluesKing - the git shop is called Twang Central, here's the website, but website is not fully up to date. It only features the 46' Banner J-45, which btw: is the one with the 13K price tag. Quite overpriced, but 8k seems actually about right when comparing to gits on gbase.com.

 

http://www.twangcentral.com.au/

[Del Nilppeznaf]

Yes, getting it back to Prague is the other major issue Del, thought about that too, and it is an issue.

 

In flying Qantas and theyre generally a bunch of Natzis when it comes to getting instruments onboard. (unlike the Lufthansa girls who swapped a peformance on board for letting me take the guitar onbard)

 

 

Yea.. those long haul flights you would be extremely lucky to get it in the cabin.

 

I once flew back from India, First Class with Virgin.. ( long story..haha ) and they let me have the guitar in the cabin... but I also had my own bed and was next to the bar..so you know :)

 

If your buying it..have a look on the frets sight I believe..about traveling/couriering with guitars.

 

There is some execellent advice on how to actually pack the guitar in its case...with newspaper ect.. and how it is a really good idea to also have the actual case and guitar in a cardboard shipping box..

 

you probably know already..but just in its case..sometimes is not enough..no matter HOW good the case

 

good luck with the sale EA ;) ( you know ya gotta haggle with him..Xmas an all...)

[ParlourMan]

Yes, getting it back to Prague is the other major issue Del, thought about that too, and it is an issue.

 

In flying Qantas and theyre generally a bunch of Natzis when it comes to getting instruments onboard. (unlike the Lufthansa girls who swapped a peformance on board for letting me take the guitar onbard)

 

However the owner will give me a flightcase in returns as it arrived in that case from the previous owner (apparently living in North Carolina).

 

BluesKing - the git shop is called Twang Central, here's the website, but website is not fully up to date. It only features the 46' Banner J-45, which btw: is the one with the 13K price tag. Quite overpriced, but 8k seems actually about right when comparing to gits on gbase.com.

 

http://www.twangcentral.com.au/

 

Good luck with the decision, EA, I'm serious regarding the AJ by the way.... Tough to walk away if you feel it's a once in a lifetime job. Your post above suggests, how shall I put it, some vintage guitars are more equal than others, if it's the one, it's the one... the rest is logistics.

[blindboygrunt]

at that price i'd be buying the guitar a seat !

i'd even let it sit at the window !

[E-minor7]

My good friend just went to Mexico with his J-45 in the cabin.

 

But ain't this exciting news EA. One serious move on the board. A cliffhanger. . .

[EuroAussie]

Ive stopped hyperventilating now and getting my heart beat back to a normal level ...

 

Lets do the Xmas feast and ill go back there again after for the crucial 2nd date and see if we go to the next base ...interesting, hey?

 

PM - I thought you over vintage sunbursts ... ?

[ParlourMan]

PM - I thought you over vintage sunbursts ... ?

 

I am, mate, but both my singers guitars are cheap POS' - we have a wee gig-fund that goes towards new gear as opposed to beer money. He normally uses some of my stuff, so would be nice for him to have a proper decent guitar and he's quite drawn to my acoustics so could be a win/win. Depends on price an all that of course. Fairly sure he'd leap at it though.

[EuroAussie]

I am, mate, but both my singers guitars are cheap POS' - we have a wee gig-fund that goes towards new gear as opposed to beer money. He normally uses some of my stuff, so would be nice for him to have a proper decent guitar and he's quite drawn to my acoustics so could be a win/win. Depends on price an all that of course. Fairly sure he'd leap at it though.

 

Fair enough. OK, lets see how this turns out over the time Im here, Im quite curious myself.

[jt]

Great looking guitar!

 

Only you can solve the dilemma, of course. But, I'd make the trade. Apart from the objective sonic quality of a guitar (and how many "grails" are you going to find?) I really value the experience of owning and playing a seven decades old guitar.

 

As for traveling with it, I fly extensively with guitars and have almost always gotten my guitars on board international flights. When I haven't, I've been able to gate check the guitar.

 

Here's my fairly recent article about legal changes in the US that will go into effect in 2014. The information about boarding strategies to maximize your chances of finding space on the flight for your guitar, though, are applicable now.

 

Keep us posted!

[EuroAussie]

Great looking guitar!

 

Only you can solve the dilemma, of course. But, I'd make the trade.

 

How did I know you were going to say this John ... :-)

 

Actually, to be honest when I was playing these beauties I was thinking of you and the samples of those lovelly banner Gibson slopes you played. This one really reminded me of your samples. There was that 70 year old dryness and open, full bass but also whawt got me with this SJ was the sweet, sparkly highs. The 43' J-45 was a little more articulate but a little too dry for my tastes, the high end wasnt quite where I wanted it to be, unlike the SJ.

 

Interestingly, the 52' SJ sounded almost identical to my Aaron Lewis SJ which is based on his 51' model. But after discussion wiht the owner we both agreed the action was a bit low and so he will raise the saddle a bit when I return after Xmas.

 

I have to admit thinking about this is actually quite painful ...

[jt]

How did I know you were going to say this John ... :-)

 

:)

 

I do think that one variable is how much one values old wood. For example, my favorite guitar these days is this battered, bruised 1943 SJ. Does it sound and play great? Yes. Does it sound better than a modern Gibson? I think so but would completely understand folks who would prefer the sound of the modern guitar. Would I rather have the old SJ than 3 modern Gibsons that sound as good? Yes. The original owner, a soldier, bought this guitar new in 1943 and took it to the European battle front. It spent the next year being drug from foxhole to foxhole and it looks like it. Every time I play it, I feel like I'm bringing history to life.

 

I feel the same about all great, old guitars. Even if a new guitar sounds better than an old guitar, I'd prefer the old guitar. I imagine who played and and what music he or she played. I really treasure great, old guitars.

 

[j45nick]

:)

 

I do think that one variable is how much one values old wood. For example, my favorite guitar these days is this battered, bruised 1943 SJ. Does it sound and play great? Yes. Does it sound better than a modern Gibson? I think so but would completely understand folks who would prefer the sound of the modern guitar. Would I rather have the old SJ than 3 modern Gibsons that sound as good? Yes. The original owner, a soldier, bought this guitar new in 1943 and took it to the European battle front. It spent the next year being drug from foxhole to foxhole and it looks like it. Every time I play it, I feel like I'm bringing history to life.

 

I feel the same about all great, old guitars. Even if a new guitar sounds better than an old guitar, I'd prefer the old guitar. I imagine who played and and what music he or she played. I really treasure great, old guitars.

 

 

 

JT, I'd say the battle scars on that SJ are well-earned, and really do form part of the guitar's character. However, it would still need to sound really good for me to justify owning it, compared to a newer guitar at a fraction of the cost and equivalent or better sound character.

 

Of course, if you have the money, the ideal situation is to own both: you've got your "every day driver", and your guitar for special circumstances.

 

In Mark's case, the question is how the vintage guitar will stand up to gigging, although I understand that's only a serious part-time thing for him. I think he now understands how people like James Taylor, Neil Young, and Jackson Browne (not to mention our own Tom Barnwell) end up with so many guitars.

 

It doesn't bear thinking of some staggering drunk trying to pick up your 1946 SJ to do his Pete Townshend imitation while you're off taking a leak between sets.

 

Decisions, decisions......

[jedzep]

Already dumped everything to get the old wood. I'm on record on this ad nauseum.

[jt]

JT, I'd say the battle scars on that SJ are well-earned, and really do form part of the guitar's character. However, it would still need to sound really good for me to justify owning it, compared to a newer guitar at a fraction of the cost and equivalent or better sound character.

...

 

In Mark's case, the question is how the vintage guitar will stand up to gigging, although I understand that's only a serious part-time thing for him.

 

...

 

Decisions, decisions......

Nick,

 

Oh, the guitar has to sound great for me to acquire it. But I do also independently value old wood.

 

We all make our choices. I certainly gig with my vintage guitars and my Banner Gibsons, including my other SJ -the minty 1943, are among the least valuable of the instruments I take to gigs. It's just a risk I'm willing to take to do what I love.

 

Going on the road a couple of years ago with Jackson Browne was an incredibly educational experience for me. He loves old guitars and is willing to submit them to the rigors of the road because he feels that he makes better music with them.

 

As you put it: decisions, decisions.