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What price would you put if you had this?


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Could you be more specific about the model? The price of an equivalent new guitar means nothing without knowing what the guitar is. Some models depreciate more than others. A few--very few--might appreciate, but usually not if an equivalent guitar is still being built.

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Special order... no standard model ever in this configuration.

Custom Shoppe

D42 base

Select Adirondack Top for tight grain..even color.

Adirondack Braces FS.

Select Highly Figured Back...Madagascar Rosewood

Full Size V Neck

Abolone inlayed on face of fingerboard & headstock

 

Such a model would have to be ordered.

 

Later.. Ivory Pins & Saddle

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Special order... no standard model ever in this configuration.

Custom Shoppe

D42 base

Select Adirondack Top for tight grain..even color.

Adirondack Braces FS.

Select Highly Figured Back...Madagascar Rosewood

Full Size V Neck

Abolone inlayed on face of fingerboard & headstock

 

Such a model would have to be ordered.

 

Later.. Ivory Pins & Saddle

 

 

Custom models like this are really hard to price. I think you have to look at what a "base" D-42 of the same vintage goes for, and use that as your starting point. Generally speaking, I suspect you would not get the kind of premium over a base model that you would hope, particularly if it is truly a one-off. Sort of reminds me of pricing used "Luthier's Choice" Gibson models with more exotic woods. They bring a premium compared to standard models, but not as high as you might expect given their much higher initial prices.

 

Similar concept is Legend models, where new prices are astronomical, but used prices suffer disproportionately from the seller's perspective. As examples, I bought a year-old L-OO Legend for 40-45% of the new MSRP, and have looked at J-45 Legends with proportionally-similar used prices.

 

With "stock" Martins, you generally negotiate bigger discounts off MSRP on new guitars than you can on Gibsons, but I don't know how negotiable Martin custom shop items are.

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Starting at the base price of the base model is like pricing one of those ornate Custom J200's selling new for 10k at the price of the standard j200.

One of those used is not dropping that much but Ill keep this fact in mind , as Id like one of those special fancy ones someday.

Actually, Im very keen on that used Braz Vase 1994 sj200 on ebay...definately over priced..maybe he'll trade : )

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Starting at the base price of the base model is like pricing one of those ornate Custom J200's selling new for 10k at the price of the standard j200.

One of those used is not dropping that much but Ill keep this fact in mind , as Id like one of those special fancy ones someday.

Actually, Im very keen on that used Braz Vase 1994 sj200 on ebay...definately over priced..maybe he'll trade : )

 

 

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not suggesting you price it like a base model: I'm just telling you that's the floor from which you begin your calculation for how you price it.

 

You're really asking a loaded question. The only way to know what the guitar is worth is to sell it as a no-reserve auction, which I suspect you don't want to do.

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I think you misunderstood me. I'm not suggesting you price it like a base model: I'm just telling you that's the floor from which you begin your calculation for how you price it.

 

You're really asking a loaded question. The only way to know what the guitar is worth is to sell it as a no-reserve acution, which I suspect you don't want to do.

 

Looks like were the only ones sitting at home with no place to go .. :" )

 

Yechs!..a no reserve auction is definately not sensible.

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Looks like were the only ones sitting at home with no place to go .. :" )

 

Yechs!..a no reserve auction is definately not sensible.

 

 

I agree. I don't know the Martin market well, except for "stock" guitars. Pricing custom versions of stock guitars is always tricky. In standard economic pricing analysis, you look at the price of substitutes. For example, in your case, a buyer will have to decide if it's worth paying a premium for your guitar compared to a "standard" D-42, and if so, what is he willing to pay for that "extra" combination of features. Chances are you may not find a buyer who values all of the upgrades the same way you do, and will go for a "lesser" version of the guitar, or at least not value your guitar at a price you are willing to sell for.

 

Think of the market for a standard J-45, a J-45 TV, and a J-45 Legend. With each increase in price, there are more viable alternatives--think of a guy looking at a Legend at $4500 used, or a good 1950 J-45 at the same price. You have fewer potential buyers.

 

At the end of the day, you have to put it on the market at the price you would like to get, and see if you get any potential buyers or offers you are willing to consider. If not, you've priced it too high, whether you think it's worth that or not. Ultimately, markets set prices when it comes to guitars, and now is not a seller's market.

 

And late on a New Year's Eve, I'm watching the US fiscal cliff negotiations with one eye, playing my L-OO, and dithering on the computer....

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PLEASE .......NEVER quote list price when you sell a guitar.....it is really disrespectful to anyone but rubes.......List price is generally double what the stores buy them for, and then they sell them for whatever they can get under list. Generally 60% of list price and above which is called the "street" price. If you have an expensive custom Martin that had a list price of 14K...then the dealer spent 7K on it. Not wanting to sit on 7K for a long time....he probably sold it for a profit of 1K. or around 8K. If you are trying to sell on Craig's list, it will be VERY hard to sell a guitar over $2000. I know, I've tried. (as have many others on CL) Even expensive custom luthier built guitars costng $6-7000, get discounted under $2500 when they finally sell on CL....so in this economic climate, trying to sell by yourself....you will be VERY hard pressed to get the prices you are talking about. For instance...I fell in love with a Martin Robbie Robertson 00-42 K 2 at Guitar center several years ago, but the $7500 street price (60% of list price), was WAY too much for my blood. Last year, a guy was selling one used for $3000 on CL, and he waited a long time to sell too. So unless you consign your guitar at a high end guitar store, who has a list of clients and collectors who are willig to play in the big leagues...then you won't get anywhere the prices you are talking about. THEN you will have to pay them 25% of the sales price. So good luck.....but the market is still soft, not a good time to del. I have not bought or sold guitar since 2008. Traded quite a few....but this is NOT a sellers market IMHO...good luck however...and happy new year!

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I would start at 50% off of MSRP list if the guitar is pristine. That is the general guideline. So I would say a $6800 starting ask, and I would adjust down for a few things. First of all "Custom stamp" is a detraction for some, even though the Martin Factory can quickly confirm specs by serial number. Take off a few hundred. Secondly abalone inlays on a guitar fretboard and headstock, while valuable to the individual purchaser, don't hold value on resale. Was that $1,000 worth of inlays? I would take off $800 if so. So now you are at $5800 ask in a tough economy, and the sale will be dictated by your patience in my opinion.

 

Yes the Madagascar rosewood is desirable, but a new D-42 lists for $6800, and can be bought for $4k - with warranty. What's the upcharge for Madagascar over EIR? I don't know... but any potential buyer will have that figure in their head (new D-42 with Madagascar upcharge for $5kish?)and will be weighing that against your beautiful used guitar.

 

I hope this is useful? I could be wrong and there could be the perfect buyer for your guitar who would pay more than what I suggested. I agree that the UMGF as well as AGF should have your listing.

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Generally selling BTO's comes with a heavy beating... your dream specs is not necessarily someone elses dream specs, these dream specs are often only 2-3 details away from a more iconic production model out there new with warranty for a good bit less, as was detailed above.

 

Probably not what you want to hear, I know, but for myself I'd pay perhaps a small step above the used price of its closest production model, the small step covering the upgrades, therefore I'd have to agree with EA above, I'd say you could get about 4k, above that you could be waiting a long game to find the one buyer who has the same (or similar) dream specs who's willing to part with more than that.

 

In short, selling BTO's is generally a pricey lesson for the GAS merchant who's gone cold on a model.

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Generally selling BTO's comes with a heavy beating... your dream specs is not necessarily someone elses dream specs, these dream specs are often only 2-3 details away from a more iconic production model out there new with warranty for a good bit less, as was detailed above.

 

Probably not what you want to hear, I know, but for myself I'd pay perhaps a small step above the used price of its closest production model, the small step covering the upgrades, therefore I'd have to agree with EA above, I'd say you could get about 4k, above that you could be waiting a long game to find the one buyer who has the same (or similar) dream specs who's willing to part with more than that.

 

In short, selling BTO's is generally a pricey lesson for the GAS merchant who's gone cold on a model.

 

You've summed up the Built To Order catch 22 pretty well. The original buyer pays a premium to get exactly what he or she wants, but the next buyer may not place a similar premium on those upgrades. To look at it in a cold hard light, you look at the actual additional cost to the manufacturer to produce the upgrades, add that onto the price of a comparable base model, and that will give you your rational minimum bottom line. In this case, a good Madi backset probably cost Martin an additional $300 over EIR at most, and a good adi soundboard maybe an additional $200.

 

That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get more than $500 above the price of a "stock" used D-42, but it will help explain why you may own it for quite a while before it sells. There are several late-model stock D-42's on ebay now, with reserve/BIN prices in the low/mid $4000's. It will be interesting to see what they actually sell for, and it will give you food for thought on how to price yours if you really want to sell it.

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Not really knowing the Martin market, I can't offer any advice. But if I was thinking about buying a Martin which was hard to determine the value of, I would be seeking out other instruments with similar specs to compare it to and try and determine what kind of bang for my buck I would be getting. There is, for example, the "Private Reserve" Martin D-42. These seem to be pretty close to yours and based on at least one guitar meglomart, while listing at over $10K have an asking price of $7K.

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These two guys have been trying to sell these two Martin trimmed out 42's for about a year now. The D-42 guy just lowered his price to $3900 from $4200......just a tough market

 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/msg/3453525932.html

 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/msg/3491312133.html

 

Here's another:

 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/msg/3505454878.html

 

My other friend has a Brazilian Martin (recent vintage) that he is trying to sell for $6K....no luck........

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These two guys have been trying to sell these two Martin trimmed out 42's for about a year now. The D-42 guy just lowered his price to $3900 from $4200......just a tough market

 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/msg/3453525932.html

 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/msg/3491312133.html

 

Here's another:

 

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/msg/3505454878.html

 

My other friend has a Brazilian Martin (recent vintage) that he is trying to sell for $6K....no luck........

 

Yeah but these are all Standard D42's with Sitka & Indian Rosewood..?

This is not one of those.

This is not standard Sitka & Indian Rosewood...Not select Sitka/select Indian Rosewood...Not standard Adirondack/standard Madagascar...It is Select Adirondack & Highly figured Madagascar.

Plus.. Adirondack braces..full size V neck..Ivory pins/bridge and ..Fingerboard/headstock inlay (this last detail jumped list $2500).

This was ordered to be a new PreWar with wood grade to match the old work..(the Mad on back to be as nice as Braz)

A standard new D42 sells for around $4200..no? This would sell for double that...(at 40 off)

The custom specs were not like I had em inlay the name of my cat on there, It was about the raising of the quality.

Alas..it still aint a good Braz Lowden.

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MB...I want you to get every dollar you can for your guitar....just saying that guitars over $2000 are having a hard time selling . You are selling to a rarified and small select audience at the prices you are suggesting. "For sale by owner" is a tough sell in this market, especially if you are asking someone to shell out the dough for a guitar, sight unseen, say for a venue like Evilbay. Might be better to use a site like Dream Guitars (http://www.dreamguitars.com) and give them a commission. Good luck with the sale!!!

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I too would love you to get the most you can. But for example, $2,000 worth of inlays retail is not something that typically carries over in the used market. In many cases the inlays will in fact turn off a buyer or detract from value.

 

That being said, I hope you get a number that makes you giddy.

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Man, it's a TOUGH market!

 

One reality I would say, is that the private party buyer is GENERALLY not looking to pay what it's worth, but pay significantly LESS than what it's worth. Some might say "it's worth what someone will pay"...that's true. But with so many looking or needing to sell right now, the market is flooded with more sellers than buyers, and the buyers ARE going to look for that advantage, and they ARE taking it because it exist.

 

Regarding retail and BTO: I don't think a "retail" for BTO actually exist. They may say it does when you order, but it comes down to what you pay. And really, it's a non-issue when selling. So, any 'retail' affixed to the BTO specs you should not really try and attach, because buyers won't honor it.

 

The only REAL way I think is consistant with pricing, is to price it with similer or the closest available to others in the market. Whatever an Adirondack top/select Madi D-42 sells for, that's what your's is likely to be. "Custon shop" may mean something compared to "non-custom shop", and your's would be priced in the Custom shop catagory. Not because of BTO's.

 

Having said all that, even if you are able to determine a fair price, good luck competing with the guy about to loose his house. Or competing with the guy who has plenty of cash who just needs space (and, THESE are often the guys who spend on these I think).

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Yeah but these are all Standard D42's with Sitka & Indian Rosewood..?

This is not one of those.

This is not standard Sitka & Indian Rosewood...Not select Sitka/select Indian Rosewood...Not standard Adirondack/standard Madagascar...It is Select Adirondack & Highly figured Madagascar.

Plus.. Adirondack braces..full size V neck..Ivory pins/bridge and ..Fingerboard/headstock inlay (this last detail jumped list $2500).

This was ordered to be a new PreWar with wood grade to match the old work..(the Mad on back to be as nice as Braz)

A standard new D42 sells for around $4200..no? This would sell for double that...(at 40 off)

The custom specs were not like I had em inlay the name of my cat on there, It was about the raising of the quality.

Alas..it still aint a good Braz Lowden.

 

 

For your interest, I went on a number of tonewood vendor sites to look at Madagascar, EIR, Sitka (and other spruces such as Engelmann and Carpathian) and Adi. A standard EIR back/sides set suitable for a quality dread costs about $150. A primo--and I mean primo, mimic'ing the look of Brazilian---Madagascar back/sides set costs $350.

 

A AAA Sitka soundboard costs about $125. A prime Adi soundboard costs $195.

 

These are retail prices, not the wholesale prices someone like Martin pays, and Martin is either buying them in the log or in thick planks for re-sawing. They are charging you a massive up-charge for what you are buying. You are really paying not for the value of the parts in your guitar, or the woods it is made with, but for the prestige of having a guitar built to your specifications. The next buyer is just looking at a nice guitar, not something that was built for him.

 

Believe me, after decades of working in custom yacht design and construction, I can tell you that bespoke luxury items often depreciate more rapidly than their "production" counterparts, which are generally built to a set of specifications designed for the broadest appeal. There is undoubtedly a buyer out there somewhere for your special guitar, but quite likely not at the premium you think it should command.

 

Unfortunately, with ivory components, you have just dramatically constrained your market, as it cannot be exported to/from most countries, even with appropriate certificates.

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