ParlourMan Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Hey ho fellas... So, I've started to become a wee bit disenchanted with the rotomatics, the D-string tuner seems a wee bit off kilter with the others, in other words requires that wee bit more fiddling about. No a drastic scenario I know, but we tend to get caught up with the little things. The guitar itself seems fine and is fully functional for stage use as is, but, should I get cheesed off with this tuner if it plays up worse (as well as agreeing they are bit bulky and ugly) I may end up looking to switch out rather than replacing one of those beefy mofo's. This brings me to the options, now it's a gigging guitar so I'm not focused on the n'th degree of vintage correctness or anything.. but I do prefer the less buly vintage looking tuners if I'm honest. So what would be the drop in options, Vs the ones requiring some sort of jiggery-pokery to get them fitted and working? Also, a small detail is I'd prefer to deal in the UK/EU if possible for speed and ease, but I'm not adverse to a US based order if that will get me sorted out. I know some of you out there have been down this road so I thought I'd try to benefit from the knowledge within the forum already. Cheers in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 i got grover statite ones for my 45 , just because i think they look nicer than the white buttons that it came with .... i do think they work better though ....i wouldve bought waverlys if money was no object , but it is .... but very impressed with the ones i got i ordered them from stewmac , took about 10 days . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 If I should change my Standard's steel-mill tuners I'd go for ovals, , , chrome ovals as the white ones are seen and appreciated on my old SJ and 45. Gotoh makes some with 15:1 ratio - opposed to 14:1's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Cheers boys, to refine my question... Which vintage styled option are a direct drop-in, of good quality? Functionality first but with a decent vintage styling too, might as well kill two birds with one stone. If not possible... Which option is direct drop in, but may need conversion bushings and is of really good quality with vintage styling? TBH even the tulips dont offend and are decent and lighter than the rotomatics, do these drop in or require drilling and all manner of phaffing around, ideally it would be a drop-in option I'd go for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I was very happy with the Stewmac Waverly open backs with the little oval buttons when I got tired of looking at the dorky butterbean orig rotos on my D18. That 19 bucks S&H pished me off a little. But I'm so mental that when I realized the time period of the Waverly repro models weren't close to correct for my '66, I swapped 'em out for early these early Klusons. Lucky they work well. http://www.ebay.com/itm/170932871509?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 You should do OK PM, shopping the 10 zillion options for used and new Klusons. You'll wince though, when you drill the extra screwholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Anybody know anything about these "golden age" jobs? You can see them half way down the page I've linked below. And aside Waverly by comparison? JP Guitars UK tuners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Sure you've looked at these on the S'mac site already, maybe the reviews will help you decide. I don't know if you can get 'em cheaper w/o the middle man, but they look to be nearly half the cost. Also, I've found their in-house techs answer emails pretty promptly. http://www.stewmac.c...Baseplates.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Sure you've looked at these on the S'mac site already, maybe the reviews will help you decide. I don't know if you can get 'em cheaper w/o the middle man, but they look to be nearly half the cost. Also, I've found their in-house techs answer emails pretty promptly. http://www.stewmac.c...Baseplates.html Do they perfectly align with a recent J-45/50? As is often said about replacing single units with 3 on a plate the smallest difference can be the biggest headache... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I recently got these for my Hummer copy and they are some of the best tuning machines I have used, maybe because they are brand new, but they could look pretty snazzy on your J50..... StewMac has the same ones: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Grover_Tuners/Grover_Deluxe_Keystones.html BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Do they perfectly align with a recent J-45/50? As is often said about replacing single units with 3 on a plate the smallest difference can be the biggest headache... Good question for the tech or pull out the yardstick. My only problem was that the Grovers on the Martin had a rather large washer that when removed left a dark circle where light didn't reach for 45 some years. If I recall, I needed to order bushings as the post diameters didn't match up. BK's solution seems VG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 When replacing Rotomatics, you almost always have to use conversion bushings because of the large-diameter "spigot" of the Rotomatics, which generally means you have a 10mm hole through the headstock. The stewmac website has dimensioned drawings of almost all the tuners and bushings they sell. Fitting conversion bushings is no big deal. If the conversion bushings are not a press fit, you can generally make them a tighter fit by coating the inside of the holes through the headstock with glue, then letting that dry BEFORE installing the bushings--you don't want to glue the bushings in. The also have post spacing diagrams for the various three-on-a-plate repro tuners they sell, where post spacing and alignment are critical. For single tuners such as Grover Sta-tite, Kluson or Waverly, the string post spacing and alignment are less important. In any case, you will end up with new screw holes in the back of the headstock, but I would not lose any sleep over that. Grover Sta-tites are a very rational, cost-effective tuner if you like the open-back look. They are slightly more bulky than their Waverly or Gotoh counterparts. I put them on my J-45 back about 1970, and they still work just fine. Except for aging of the nickel finish, they look just as they did more than 40 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 When replacing Rotomatics, you almost always have to use conversion bushings because of the large-diameter "spigot" of the Rotomatics, which generally means you have a 10mm hole through the headstock. The stewmac website has dimensioned drawings of almost all the tuners and bushings they sell. Fitting conversion bushings is no big deal. If the conversion bushings are not a press fit, you can generally make them a tighter fit by coating the inside of the holes through the headstock with glue, then letting that dry BEFORE installing the bushings--you don't want to glue the bushings in. The also have post spacing diagrams for the various three-on-a-plate repro tuners they sell, where post spacing and alignment are critical. For single tuners such as Grover Sta-tite, Kluson or Waverly, the string post spacing and alignment are less important. In any case, you will end up with new screw holes in the back of the headstock, but I would not lose any sleep over that. Grover Sta-tites are a very rational, cost-effective tuner if you like the open-back look. I put them on my J-45 back about 1970, and they still work just fine. Except for aging of the nickel finish, they look just as they did more than 40 years ago. Cheers Nick, While it might be nice to use this as an excuse to install something that appeals with vintage styling, what I'm after is a fairly hassle free installation of something that works well and looks quite decent, not these modern metal looking jobs most modern tuners seem to be. I really couldn't care less about an extra screw hole, or if a 3 on a plate covered the serial slightly etc... functionality first but with a wee vintage styled nod and ease of installation would be perfect. So, I'll have a look at the ones you've mentioned. The current one is not drastic by any means, but we do tend to notice the small things, so I'd rather adress the whole issue rather than opting for one rotomatic change, much more an aesthetic decision than anything I guess. StewMac wont load on the work browser for some reason, took about 30 mins to load one page... I'll look at them all later and then check back with some findings and ideas to check with those in the know I'm not making a daft move. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchristo Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 how about these, just need to drill one hole My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I really like the Stewmac golden era tuners and a number of the builders making the Buddy Holly guitars have used them. These are replicas of the Klusons that would have been on an original, 1940s J-50. If you scroll down here you can see an original set on a J-50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 The Grover Keystones dchristo posted are a direct replacement for the Grover Rotomatics, save one screw hole which is really not necessary to drill. They bolt to the headstock in the same size hole as the Rotos, lighten the load at that end of the guitar and look very nice. Did this swap on my Hummingbird......no hassles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 I really like the Stewmac golden era tuners and a number of the builders making the Buddy Holly guitars have used them. These are replicas of the Klusons that would have been on an original, 1940s J-50. If you scroll down here you can see an original set on a J-50. Do they fit well on a recent Bozeman spec model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Do they fit well on a recent Bozeman spec model? I don't know. But the specs posted here should provide you with enough info to determine whether they'll fit your guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I really like the Stewmac golden era tuners and a number of the builders making the Buddy Holly guitars have used them. These are replicas of the Klusons that would have been on an original, 1940s J-50. If you scroll down here you can see an original set on a J-50. JT, is that a replacement bridge on that J-50? I've never seen an angled cove before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 The Grover Keystones dchristo posted are a direct replacement for the Grover Rotomatics, save one screw hole which is really not necessary to drill. They bolt to the headstock in the same size hole as the Rotos, lighten the load at that end of the guitar and look very nice. Did this swap on my Hummingbird......no hassles. Indeed they are. No-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 JT, is that a replacement bridge on that J-50? I've never seen an angled cove before. That's original. That angled cove only appeared with the first year Banners. Here's my LG-1 of the same year: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 If I go with these, I need the bushings too, right? http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Waverly_Guitar_Tuners/Waverly_Guitar_Tuners_with_Ivoroid_Knobs,_for_Solid_Pegheads.html Hex or round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 If I go with these, I need the bushings too, right? http://www.stewmac.c...d_Pegheads.html Hex or round? When you click on the conversion bushing link on that same SMac page, you'll get all the info. My Martin took the hex and I actually had to slightly ream my headstock holes, which I did with a Dremel tool. I double checked and measured the dia. of the post hole, then sent the info including what guitar I was installing on to their tech and he told me what to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 If I go with these, I need the bushings too, right? http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Waverly_Guitar_Tuners/Waverly_Guitar_Tuners_with_Ivoroid_Knobs,_for_Solid_Pegheads.html Hex or round? J-50s had round bushings, so that's what I'd choose. Waverlys are fantastic tuners. I've got them on my modern guitars. Please keep us posted on your project! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Yeah that's what I clicked on, but it offers both types. It's never something I've looked at before so the hex or round was more a question of what's fashionable? Outside of buttons, tulips, etc.. and a couple of the company names I know jack about tuners. Never had too much issue before and I'm not too much of a modder. Reasonably virgin territory for me... I'm not even opposed to tulips on a 45/50 or is that a no-no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Yeah that's what I clicked on, but it offers both types. It's never something I've looked at before so the hex or round was more a question of what's fashionable? Outside of buttons, tulips, etc.. and a couple of the company names I know jack about tuners. Never had too much issue before and I'm not too much of a modder. Reasonably virgin territory for me... I'm not even opposed to tulips on a 45/50 or is that a no-no? Yep...I put the hex on because the originals were hex, but they were press-on which is what made the reaming tricky. The Grovers were threaded. All these details are the reason I contacted their tech. I'm not a fan of anything decorative so I liked the little nickel oval buttons. I like the look of the white or black as well, as long as they're small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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