My old Stella Harmony parlor...

[Ryan H]

I already posted this in the Lounge, but BigKahune suggested I should try here in the acoustic section as well.

 

I've had this old guitar laying around for years, unstrung, unplayed. It was my first guitar, and my god it was the most unplayable thing I ever touched. Didn't sound all that great either. I'll explain why...

 

It's a 60's Stella Harmony H929 parlor...12 frets to body, all birch, ladder-braced, floating bridge and stamped metal "trapeze" tailpiece, Massive baseball bat neck with completely flat fretboard and thin, low frets.

 

The biggest problem is the lack of an adjustable truss rod. It has a "steel reinforced neck", which I'm assuming is a facsimile to Martin's non-adjustable truss rods of old. The neck is thicker than any guitar I've ever played. Because of this, I've only ever put 10's or 11's (acoustic strings) on it, out of fear of breaking something. The problem is that unlike a fixed bridge acoustic, the floating bridge needs downward pressure to transfer the vibrations properly.

 

On an archtop, the arch that the bridge sits on aids in this, as the strings slope down and away from the bridge. With such light strings and a flat top, I can easy Move the bridge with my fingers, which tells me there isn't enough downward force. The neck is perfectly straight with the 10's and 11's.

 

Another problem is playability. The action is already what I would call "medium", and with the flat classical-style fretboard and not even Toothpick thin frets, it takes considerable force just to fret a simple D chord. But if I lower the bridge/saddle to get lower action, I'll lose break angle. Are the only options either a refret with more "normal" sized frets, or a neck reset to get a better angle? It still has the original frets (they look almost brass, definitely not nickel silver), which show no pitting or wear whatsoever.

 

I think the flimsy tailpiece might contribute to it somewhat, but I doubt it's significant.

 

Any other thoughts?

 

I've attached pics for your examination. And yes, that's a horrible faux-flame finish (what kind of flame runs vertical like that??), and that pickguard is Screwed into the top (it came stock like that).

 

 

 

-Ryan

[JohnnyReb]

I don't know the answers to your questions, but it looks better than mine Of course mine is a mid 30's model and been through hell

 

[QuestionMark]

I have a similar one in my collection, only without the Harmony name underneath the Stella logo. Otherwise, identical. With its poor action, I actually taught myself how to play slide and lap slide on mine in the late 90s. I even raised the strings higher with an overlay nut at the time when I began exploring lap style playing. Bought mine for $40 at the time. My very first guitar in the early 60s was the same model and I learned to play on it as a nine year old. I was happy to have gotten it at the time and I believe my father paid about only $9 for it...of which I was overjoyed to have had my own guitar rather than have to have shared one with my brother. Had it for about a year until I progressed to my older brother's hand-me down Kay when he bought a Gibson LG3. I then sold my mine to a neighbor for I think $12. The one I had when I was 9/10 was never a great guitar, just a beginner guitar at the time (perfect as I was a beginner.) The one I bought out of nostaglia in the late 90s (same price with inflation, I guess)was like the same guitar only like an inexpensive poorly braced guitar deteriorated 40 years later. Was cool to learn slide on it at the time (as a slide beginner) and then move on from it and apply what I figured out to much better guitars I own or bought, including a Regal squareneck dobro (which worked a lot better than the hotrodded nut Stella, but is the same in concept.) Still have it...for sentimental purposes, but don't really play it.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[jedzep]

The suggestion that you commit this to lap slide open tuning style is a good one. I have a lot of fun with my Oahu copy with a soundhole pickup. It uses my burnt up strings from the real acoustics I play daily, which is another benefit. For a couple hundred bucks you can find an Alvarez or something to play standard style. I can't see where any $ investment in the Stella pays off, except for a 4 dollar steel slide.

[QuestionMark]

ps. Do have to say, I just had a nice flashback to being 9 years old just before I received my first guitar, the Stella. I was in a music store and the owner was trying to sell my father an expensive guitar for my brother and I to learn on. Up on the wall he was showing us about 4 sunburst Gibsons. This was back in 1962, so they were "vintage" Gibsons although they were brand new at the time. Two of them were concert size sunburst Gibsons so they must have been a LG1 and a LG2 or both one of those. One was definitely a J160 as I remember the sales owner pointing out to us how it was acoustic and electric (plus, I remember seeing those two knobs on it). The other sunburst Gibson I have to assume was a J-45 as it was a full size round shouldered guitar, acoustic only, simiar to the J160 only without the knobs. Anyhow, my father didn't shell out the big bucks for those Gibsons as we hadn't even taken our first lesson, and to be honest, being a 9 year old at the time and happy to just get my own guitar...that Stella to me looked like one of them Gibson sunbursts that were hanging on the sales wall. Course, 50 years later...I own a slew of Gibsons including a 1965 LG1 and a 1964 J45 Custom Shop Reissue (that non-surprisingly look like two of those Gibbys that were hanging on that music store wall on day 1 of my guitar playing.) Just some warm memories of my early guitar playing.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[Dave F]

I started feeling the same way a few weeks ago with my 60's Kay which was the first guitar my Mom bought me.

I've ordered a new neck and some retro Kay details to try to make it look real.

Will take a few weeks to get the neck. I'm going for the Century of Progress look.

Hopefully it will be more playable, if not it's going back to be a wall hanger.

There was too much wear with the old neck and I did not want to replace the fretboard and still not have a trussrod.

 

[Ryan H]

The suggestion that you commit this to lap slide open tuning style is a good one. I have a lot of fun with my Oahu copy with a soundhole pickup. It uses my burnt up strings from the real acoustics I play daily, which is another benefit. For a couple hundred bucks you can find an Alvarez or something to play standard style. I can't see where any $ investment in the Stella pays off, except for a 4 dollar steel slide.

 

I already have 2 acoustics that I use for "Standard style", and I'm not really into the acoustic slide thing. I'm more of an electric slide guy, when I'm in the mood. This thing just Projects so much more than any of my other acoustics (including a 20 year-old full-sized dread), and is probably half the size at least. It's way more comfortable in terms of dimensions and Weight, but the playability just isn't there.

 

One of my buddies recommended a "poor man's neck reset", which (for those who don't know) involves sawing the neck joint where it meets the body (from the bottom towards the fretboard) just 2 inches or so deep, then using a strap pin to bolt it back against the body. The wood the saw takes away would allow the neck to pitch backwards slightly, creating more downward pressure on the bridge and lower possible action.

 

For what it's worth, I didn't pay a penny for it; I found it in our attic.

 

Thanks again,

 

-Ryan

[jedzep]

I already have 2 acoustics that I use for "Standard style", and I'm not really into the acoustic slide thing. I'm more of an electric slide guy, when I'm in the mood. This thing just Projects so much more than any of my other acoustics (including a 20 year-old full-sized dread), and is probably half the size at least. It's way more comfortable in terms of dimensions and Weight, but the playability just isn't there.

 

One of my buddies recommended a "poor man's neck reset", which (for those who don't know) involves sawing the neck joint where it meets the body (from the bottom towards the fretboard) just 2 inches or so deep, then using a strap pin to bolt it back against the body. The wood the saw takes away would allow the neck to pitch backwards slightly, creating more downward pressure on the bridge and lower possible action.

 

For what it's worth, I didn't pay a penny for it; I found it in our attic.

 

Thanks again,

 

-Ryan

But you said in the orig post it didn't sound that great either. That's why I suggested canning the rebuild.

[Ryan H]

But you said in the orig post it didn't sound that great either. That's why I suggested canning the rebuild.

 

Part of the reason for the sound I believe is that there's barely any pressure on the saddle because of the shallow break angle from the tailpiece, and the lack of any neck pitch. I can literally lift the string off the saddle with my finger, tuned to concert pitch, with no effort. With the neck angled back, more pressure will be exerted on the top, transferring vibrations more efficiently and hopefully giving this thing a little more life.

 

-Ryan

[jedzep]

Good luck with that, but I don't think these old student guitars are worth the effort. Nostalgia, maybe yes. Tone? F'get about it.

[Ryan H]

Good luck with that, but I don't think these old student guitars are worth the effort. Nostalgia, maybe yes. Tone? F'get about it.

 

And that my friend is why Tone is subjective. And it's a wonderful thing.

 

-Ryan

[zombywoof]

As a start, I woulod not say Harmomy was not trying to mimic Martin. They did not put an adjustable truss rod in most of their guitars because of the added cost. These guys were turning out tens of thousands of guitars a year and still had trouble keeping up with orders.

 

Second, on at least their cheaper guitars, the necks were never really angled that well to begin with.

 

I have had worked on more of these el cheapo mail order guitars over the past decade than I care to recall. Some actually ended up as decent players (an early 1950s brownburst Stella comes to mind). Others, lets just say they have found a home adorning the walls of a friend's BBQ place or sitting in my basement cannabalized of all useable parts.

 

About the best thing I can think of other than a neck reset would be to plane the board to get a better angle and then refret. I am not sure though how much cheaper this would be than a proper neck reset.

 

If the guitar was bellying up you could look into a Bridge Doctor. These will reduce any bellying up in the bridge area lowering the action. But bellying up is generally not an issue with a floating bridge.

 

Here is my current player - a late 1930s Harmony-made Supertone (the name used by Sears before Silvertone).

 

[QuestionMark]

Fact be fact, the reality was/is these non-Oscar Schmidt Stellas were poorly designed inexpensively made mass produced guitars meant to appeal to beginner guitarists and were never intended to even be considered high quality. (Oscar Schmidts were the original Stellas such as Leadbelly used and were totally different guitars. Only the name Stella survived when the name was bought up by Harmony with the original Oscar Schmidts company's demise. Just as today's Oscar Schmidt company is only the name of the legendary company that made Stella and has no direct lineage.) Harmony made Stellas (Harmony also made them for other companies like Sears under the Silvertone name which were near identical) were made to look on the surface like their more expensive counterparts, but used cheaper woods, cheap design version of more expensive bridges, had painted surfaces, and all the rest of the cost cutting that was needed at the time to produce a really inexpensive guitar for beginners.

 

What is really coooool, is how far innovation and technology has come (one has to give credit that it was actually initiated by Norlin Gibson in the 70s with its outsourcing its Epiphone line to Japan)to eventually lead to in today's modern Asion outsource market producing really well constructed and designed beginner guitars that are inexpensive. Where I started on a cheap Stella that had severe construction and playing issues, today's youngun can start on a beginner Epiphone or other imported model that is well constructed and designed and at worst has a laminated top. If the Norlin era did one thing right...though it was highly criticized at the time, it started the mass improvement of inexpensive outsourced beginner guitars which killed off the former not-so-hot inexpensive beginner guitar era from the mass produced poorly made Stella/Harmony/Kay era. (Although somehow...some of the more middle model Harmony and Kays from that era, with age turned out to not be such bad instruments, today...because their wood was good and agedf well and their construction standards in comparison to some today...weren't all that bad. But, the very beginner models never were good and didn't age into being good.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[zombywoof]

Harmony made Stellas (Harmony also made them for other companies like Sears under the Silvertone name which were near identical) were made to look on the surface like their more expensive counterparts, but used cheaper woods, cheap design version of more expensive bridges, had painted surfaces, and all the rest of the cost cutting that was needed at the time to produce a really inexpensive guitar for beginners.

 

 

No different than the Schmidt Stellas. You could buy like a dozen Schmidt Stellas for $60. Both Schmidt and Harmony relied heavily on birch, stencil designs, faux finishes and such. The big difference was the bracing. The pre-1940 Stellas and Sovereigns had a very well thought out bracing which allowed for more top vibration than the later Harmony versions. While this was great for sound, it also resulted in problems like the top buckling around the soundhole because Schmidt often did not put any bracing to reinforce that area of the top. I have owned enough of them to know. My favorite Schmidt Stella remains the little redburst First Hawaiin Conservatory of Music guitars. You got one free when you signed up with Schmidt's mail order music business.

[QuestionMark]

Interesting...thanks for the history and experience with the original Oscar Schmidt Stellas.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[Triumph1050]

I bought two old gits like yours last year. One was an Excellent condition H929 looked identical to yours. The other was a same era same style US Strad.

 

The action was great on both they were both in great condition but the Harmonix sounded like crap compared to the other one. They were both all Birch.

 

If you like it tryi to fix it up but I wouldn't put much money in one of those

[Triumph1050]

I forgot to add I ended up giving the H929 Harmony to my son when he went off to college for a dorm guitar I kept the other one because it sounded much better