Lyre Vibrola experience?

[hi13ts]

I've finally set up my SG Original to my playing specs and it's great. It definitely feels different than my Les Paul, as I expected, because of it being an SG and the the break between bridge and vibrola is less sharp. It's a very good guitar, but I've been having trouble getting on with the vibrola. I don't expect it to be as useful as Fender's system, but I did expect to use it just to shimmer chords here and there much like a Bigsby, but even that is throwing everything sharp. I've applied generous amounts of nut and bridge lube, and although it did help with overall tuning, it's almost like the vibrola forgoes that entirely, still throwing everything off tune. When I had a Bigsby Les Paul, I was able to use it to a certain extent, and although the vibrola feels better to use, it's merciless.

 

What I'm asking is for the helpful advice of others who have vibrola-equipped SGs who might be able to mitigate my problem. It's absolutely gorgeous, but I'd really like it to be somewhat functional. Another odd thing I've noticed is that the bar is really raised high, like the bent metal is more bent than what I see in pictures. Many vibrola-equipped SG photos I see have the arm rotated down, with the walrus tooth facing downwards. Mine can't do that easily; I would have to unscrew the arm, situate it into the desired position and rescrew it, but even then, the arm pressing firmly onto the finish.

 

I don't have very good cameras, but I'll see if I can get a close up shot for examination. In the meantime, if anyone has helpful advice, I greatly welcome it. Thanks in advance!

[sellen]

It'a all about the fresh nut i think. Time will fix, or you can use a light sandpaper and adjust the nut slots in the sides(do not sand it down in the slots). Or even better get a tech to install a bone nut, and go over the bridge saddles

[durtyDevil]

I don't really have any advice to give you, but I can tell you I just bought an SG Original and am having the same exact issues as you. I've had SG's with the Vibrola and never had this problem. From what I can see, it's the extreme upward angle of the spring that's causing the problem. But as one of the other forum members has suggested, i bought a new arm from AllParts and we'll see if it fits better or if I can have it bent to fit. My tuning issues did ease up afterI lubed it up and played the hell out of it at practice. Good luck with an awesome guitar.

[BigKahune]

.

You're looking at the saddle and nut pinch points and lubing which is good. Make sure the saddle slots are smooth - no burrs.

 

This will help: With a file or sand paper ease the peghead side slots of the A D G B strings so that the bend the string makes toward its tuning post has less friction then with a square slot corner (see the pic below).

 

Make sure the ball ends of your strings are seating properly in the trem slots. Also, if you don't have locking tuners, when you restring onto the tuning posts try to get at least 2 wraps on the wound strings and at least 3 wraps on the wire strings below the hole. Then use the back loop lock technique to solidly anchor each string. Stretch each new string a half tone or so the make sure the wraps seat properly.

 

Regarding the arm swing: Not sure if you're asking about swinging it away while play or for casing. I just move mine a little so it's out of the way while playing, but easily grabbed when needed. For casing I swing mine counter-clockwise over the trem and it fits in the case (see 2nd pic below). Also take a look at this thread from a couple days ago - http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/96131-ngd-sg-original-and-a-question/

 

 

[hi13ts]

Firstly, thanks for the replies!

 

Looks like Durty Devil beat me to the trem arm question. I have some photos for you to see the angle of the arm. It's exactly what Durty Devil is battling with. I don't think it's a factory defect, I think the Maestros come this way now, as I see the same problem in all of the photos of the SG Original.

 

After I posted the question, I continued researching and have found that other people have similar problems with other vibrola-equipped guitars. They said that unlike the Fender and Bigsby system, the arm doesn't pop back into place after you let it go, meaning you have to guide the arm back into it's place after shimmering it. I tried that by bending it down and the pulling it back up a little up and it worked! The tuning was not badly thrown off. I'm sure it wasn't back to perfect pitch, it was good enough where it's hard to notice. It's a little inconvenient as I'm already use to both the Fender and Bigsby system, but it''ll give me the functionality I need.

 

I'm in the same boat as Durty Devil on a lot of these issues. The wait for this guitar was gruesome and it's such a gorgeous and awesome guitar already, I'd hate to have to exchange it and then wait and possibly get an inferior guitar. It still has slight tuning issues here and there, but I attribute it to how new it is (my particular model was made Nov. 22, 2012). After lots of playing, string changes, nut lubes, possible nut filing, and all the other adjustments and changes that come as the guitar is played more, I think it will be beyond this world.

[durtyDevil]

Well, i stopped by Guitar Center for a cable today and noticed they had two Originals on display. Both had the same exact issue going on. So I guess it's just the angle they're bending the springs on. They are beautiful guitars, though. I found myself admiring them in the store even though I have one of my own haha. The knucklehead salesman was trying to convince me it was a Robby Krieger model. One of them was light as a feather....the other was a heavy one like mine.

[EADGBE]

The Maestro arm of my Jeff Tweedy SG points quite a lot outwards from the guitar body but it works beautyfully and returns to pitch as lond as I won't abuse it. I like it a lot more than Bigsby B5. Actually I like it so much ordered a short maestro to my SG Spcieal too. There's no mechanics so it must be either the bridge not rocking enough or the nut?

[hi13ts]

I think it's a combination of everything. Bridge, nut, even tuning pegs. Funny, but I've tossed the arm off ala Mike Campbell and it seems to hold better tune (it was having little tuning issues with the higher strings even when I didn't rock the arm). Could be my imagination since the metal spring angle is the same. I looked at Tone Pros' roller bridge and that might be something to invest in. It would be good for me to ask a luthier to clean up the nut too. I'm a little sad because after all this time of lusting after a Maestro-equipped SG, I've encountered more problems than I expected in regards to tuning, not to mention that with the money spent, I'd expect all the kinks to be worked out. Well, I guess moving from years of stop-bar Les Pauls would require some adjusting. I'm confident I'll get it working to my liking sooner rather than later though.

 

Durty Devil, please let us know how the Allparts arm works for you. I can't see that making a difference since bent metal (spring) would still be the same, but who knows... Has anyone tried fitting an Allparts metal spring of the Maestro into a stock Gibson Lyre tailpiece? Maybe Allparts angling is more reminiscent of the older Maestro models.

[EADGBE]

One more thing, it's an SG. At least my SG's, neither the stop bar Special or the Maestro equipped Tweedy, hold tune as perfectly as my most of my other guitars do. Still good enough.

[hi13ts]

Hey guys, another question:

 

If I take all my strings off at once, will the vibrola piece fall off? Looks like a pain to re-direct as there doesn't seem to be any markings to let me know exactly how to put it back into place. I'm asking because I'll be putting a roller bridge soon, and wondered if I should tape/rubber band the vibrola piece on to where it's attached before loosening all the strings.

[BigKahune]

.

If you take all your strings off, the trem bar with the string notches can slide/slip off the spring steel. The alignment is not critical as you will have to intonate the new bridge anyway. Take note of the alignment on the side of the trem where you can see the joint between the trem bar and the spring (the side opposite of the trem handle). You have a pic of it above. If you take the trem bar off the spring, put it back with the same alignment (close enough). If you want it exactly the same, use your tape or rubber bands.

 

 

.

[hi13ts]

Okay friends,

 

I did some work over the weekend. Got my luthier to clean up the nut, installed a roller bridge, and painfully played with the Maestro arm. After a bit of here and there in the hardware store, I was able to secure the Maestro arm (it was loose) by taking out the washer that goes between the arm and the spring plate and tightening a nut on the opposite side. I can hear metal rubbing on metal, so I think it may be wise to look harder for a thin washer to put in between those metal parts. I did, however, see older arms that only had on washer between the arm and the bolt, and then a nut on the other side. Is this something I should concern myself with, the metal on metal?

 

The roller bridge is a TonePros Nashville with roller saddles. Ingenious design with one flaw: the roller saddles are higher than the regular TOM saddles. I usually set my guitars 4/64 in. low and 3/64 high. After bottoming out the thumbwheels, it's still 2/64 in. over my desired height. There's something about it that's not as bothersome as one would think though. I think because I kept the radius consistent, it's not as unplayable as I was fearing. I may have to relearn to play in this action setup. Have any of you run into this with roller saddles?

 

All in all, it is definitely keeping in tune better. Too much on the arm will still throw some strings a few cents sharp, but that's okay... it was throwing it nearly a semi-tone sharp before! As I said before, after months of breaking in, I can't imagine it still having the tuning problems it has now. I can post pictures of the bridge if anyone wants to analyze.

 

Thanks for all there replies!