Concerning Neck Resets..?

[merseybeat1963]

Under Gibsons lifetime warranty does it cover a neck reset ?

A Taylor Authorized guy I asked said Taylor does...he thinks Martin does also but is not a service center for them, he said he is not sure about Gibson?

Thanks

[QuestionMark]

My experience is Taylor sales representatives love to talk about neck resets on the guitars, because they have bolt on necks that make neck resets extremely easy to do...

 

I've heard Taylor sales reps put down Gibsons and Martins as not being guitars that can easily have neck resets. Its confused the buyer who is simply not in the know.

 

The fact is Gibsons and Martins do not have bolt on necks, but usually employ dove-tail joint constructed attached necks (or somoething like that...I'm not a luthier), which is how most finely made handcrafted guitars are built. And, since they are finely made handcrafted guitars they generally will not need a neck reset for years and years of their being played if ever, except in rare cases. Should they ever need one, they should be taken to a skilled fine guitar luthier/repairperson who understands how to properly repair a dove-tail joint attached neck. The way it is joined to the body influences the guitar's tone, craftsmanship, etc. to many critics/players.

 

Historically, electric guitars whose tone is primarily influenced by their pickups and overall construction for electric playing use bolt on necks. Also, inexpensive acoustic guitars historically utilized bolt on necks to cut costs and expenses of having skilled luthier's build their guitars.

 

Then along comes Taylor in the timeline of guitar making and places a bolt on neck on an expensive priced guitar they are selling and begins telling players a bolt on neck is better on an acoustic guitar because it allows for easy neck resets. (Why it would even need a neck reset is a whole other question.) since many of the players they are selling to are electric players or do not know the history of acoustic guitar buiiding/defining what makes a good guitar...they buy into the concept.

Before you know it, acoustic guitar players are talking about how their guitars need neck resets way too often. They even begin interchanging truss rod adjustments and neck resets...which are not the same things at all.

 

Not surprising you had a Taylor representative talk about how their guitars can have easy neck resets and Martins/Gibsons...blah blah blah.

 

A $100 Norlin era import Epiphone from the 70s with a bolt on neck can easily have its neck reset, also. Even Gibson stopped putting bolt on necks on their modern day Epiphone import acoustics because it was not considered proper for an acoustic guitar and represented lack of luthiership quality.

 

But, Taylor keep selling their bolt on necks and charging a ton of money for their guitars...after all, they can easily have neck resets. Go figure. A $2000 high quality acoustic guitar should not be easy to take apart and should need to be brought to a skilled luthier if it ever needs a major repair like a neck reset. I assume if there was a bona-fide structural error in a Gibson necessitaing a neck reset they'd cover it under warrantee...plus, they would probably fix it to last 40 years provided it was taken care of afterwards. But, to take a guitar in for just neck reset like its an automobile tire rotation or because it keeps needing a rouitine reset doesn't sound like a need of something that should be a high quality instrument.

 

I own 39 instruments. Only one of them ever needed a true neck reset...a Norlin era Gibson. Which, Gibson fixed and explained was from a structural wood flaw that caused it to warp.

 

Just my two cents of experience.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[drathbun]

I like to think of a neck reset as getting a ring job on an old car. Even if the car had proper oil changes.. if it has been driven, it will eventually need a ring job. If the car is an old Chev worth $200, you wouldn't think of doing an expensive engine job on it. If it was a 1965 Mustang in great shape, you might consider it as it will extend the life of the car.

 

So a 1946 Gibson might require a neck reset after having years of tension on the neck and being played. You'd consider doing a $300 neck reset because the guitar is worth it. However, that 1965 Silvertone... perhaps not.

 

I quite like some Taylors I've played. I own a really nice Taylor 12. I didn't buy it for the neck feature. In 30 years, it will be cheaper to reset the neck. :) In 30 years I won't be resetting it anyway.. my son probably will.

[j45nick]

Back to the original question, it's one that only Gibson can answer. But since the new-guitar warranty is not transferable, it's almost an academic question, as few people who buy a new guitar own it long enough for a neck re-set to be required.

 

I do know people who have had neck re-sets on Martins under factory warranty.

 

Per the comments above on electric guitar necks, the neck attachment varies on Gibson electrics. My two ES-335's have mortise-and-tenon neck joints, which can be re-set much like a dovetail joint. In fact, I had a neck re-set on my 1968 ES 335-12 a couple of years ago, which is not that surprising given the additional tension of 12 strings on a body and neck that were designed as a six-string, with no modification other than the headstock, nut, tailpiece, and saddles for the 12-string version.

[larryplatz]

Just had to throw this in. It's been pretty well suggested on numerous occasions that Bob Taylor took the idea of the bolt on neck from Stu Mossman. If you've never owned a Mossman (at least from the mid-70's) they are built like tanks. Way overbraced and really geared to medium strings just to make it resonate properly. So, that being said, my '76 Mossman Great Plains is the only guitar I've ever owned that actually had to have a neck reset. I own a '65 J50 that has an unbelievable saddle height. Neck angle is still perfect after close to 50 years. And I do believe the guys in Bozeman have mastered their craft to the point where the construction quality and techniques meet or exceed what ever came out of Kalamazoo. So, I would actually anticipate even less potential problems if the instrument is properly cared for. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for reading.

[merseybeat1963]

So pretty much a neck reset after long ownership is not covered by Gibson (in the old days Martin did cover them but these days I dont know).

After a look the guitar does not need a neck reset anyway..just a little less relief..but truss rod having not been touched for nearly 20 years seems stuck...?

Once I get that adjusted Ill see if raise is an issue.

[j45nick]

So pretty much a neck reset after long ownership is not covered by Gibson (in the old days Martin did cover them but these days I dont know).

 

 

It has nothing to do with the length of ownership. It's whether or not you are the original owner, having purchased the guitar new from an authorized Gibson dealer. Martin's policy is much the same, as I understand it.

[merseybeat1963]

It has nothing to do with the length of ownership. It's whether or not you are the original owner, having purchased the guitar new from an authorized Gibson dealer. Martin's policy is much the same, as I understand it.

 

Nah..20 years down the line they would not stand behind that if required Ive been told by Gibson..through authorized repair..bought new orig owner..from Gibson dealer.

 

See note below from Gibson:

 

Typically neck resets are not covered under our warranty as it is not considered a defect in materials or workmanship but is just something that may need to be done on older guitars as the wood settles. However, if this is a newer guitar there may be some consideration. What´s the serial number of the guitar and when and where did he purchase it (they will need to have a receipt for any warranty consideration). Most likely it would need to come back to us for a repair such as that.

[rar]

I like to think of a neck reset as getting a ring job on an old car. Even if the car had proper oil changes.. if it has been driven, it will eventually need a ring job. ...

This seems like an excellent analogy. If you need a ring job after a few thousand miles on a new car, it would be covered by the warranty: that would be have to be due to a factory defect. If you need a ring job after 50K miles and you never changed the oil, it would not covered by warranty: it's your fault for not maintaining the car properly. If you need a ring job after 250K miles, it's not covered by warranty (even if you paid for the really extended warranty and maintained the car as required): it's the result of normal wear and tear, not a factory defect. Similarly, if a factory defect -- bad wood or bad workmanship -- results in the original owner needing for a neck reset, it's covered by warranty. But wear and tear is the culprit in most cases.

 

It is true that Martin used to cover the first neck reset under warranty, no matter why it was needed. But that was just to generate good will, not because the warranty required them to do so. Because Martin covered these neck resets under a warranty which says only that factory defects are covered, I suspect people got the (wrong) idea that need for a reset is always due to a factory defect.

 

-- Bob R

 

P.S. Apparently Martin's "first reset is free" policy is no longer the in force. Compare the number of people in the '80s who were original owners of pre-War Martins to the number of people today who are original owners of '50s and '60s Martins and it's pretty obvious why Martin can't afford to be so generous anymore.

[RichG]

Two years ago Martin did a neck reset and a bridge replacement on my twenty year old HD28 for free, no questions asked. This was after my local expert authorized Martin service guy told me (without looking at the guitar) that I obviously let it dry out and there was no way they would cover it. But he would be glad to fix it for about $1000. Needless to say, I got a second opinion.

 

Rich

[merseybeat1963]

In the 80-90's Martin repaired your guitar absolutely just about every time..it was an impressive thing..was not sure about recent decade but seems they still stand behind it.

Luckily mine does not need this job anyway...if it did I would have been surprised as it has resided in my bedroom with light strings on it..as I am mostly an electric guitar player.

The Martin Service guy who looked at it was surprised at the condition of the 24 year old guitar (Prototype A first Bozeman Guitar..built before factory.. probably by Ren Ferguson) & said it is nearly perfect.

Id like to keep it that way..as this is no common production line guitar

[rar]

Two years ago Martin did a neck reset and a bridge replacement on my twenty year old HD28 for free, no questions asked. ...

I haven't heard of any cases with a guitar this new not being reset under warranty by Martin ... yet. The cutoff age is not completely consistent, but the average seems to be dropping. Maybe the response to the warranty repair request depends partly upon the current state of their warranty budget.

 

I'm sure authorized Martin guitar repair folks could give you more detail on what get's covered these days and what doesn't.

 

-- Bob R

[davenumber2]

My experience is Taylor sales representatives love to talk about neck resets on the guitars, because they have bolt on necks that make neck resets extremely easy to do...

 

I've heard Taylor sales reps put down Gibsons and Martins as not being guitars that can easily have neck resets. Its confused the buyer who is simply not in the know.

 

The fact is Gibsons and Martins do not have bolt on necks, but usually employ dove-tail joint constructed attached necks (or somoething like that...I'm not a luthier), which is how most finely made handcrafted guitars are built. And, since they are finely made handcrafted guitars they generally will not need a neck reset for years and years of their being played if ever, except in rare cases. Should they ever need one, they should be taken to a skilled fine guitar luthier/repairperson who understands how to properly repair a dove-tail joint attached neck. The way it is joined to the body influences the guitar's tone, craftsmanship, etc. to many critics/players.

 

Historically, electric guitars whose tone is primarily influenced by their pickups and overall construction for electric playing use bolt on necks. Also, inexpensive acoustic guitars historically utilized bolt on necks to cut costs and expenses of having skilled luthier's build their guitars.

 

Then along comes Taylor in the timeline of guitar making and places a bolt on neck on an expensive priced guitar they are selling and begins telling players a bolt on neck is better on an acoustic guitar because it allows for easy neck resets. (Why it would even need a neck reset is a whole other question.) since many of the players they are selling to are electric players or do not know the history of acoustic guitar buiiding/defining what makes a good guitar...they buy into the concept.

Before you know it, acoustic guitar players are talking about how their guitars need neck resets way too often. They even begin interchanging truss rod adjustments and neck resets...which are not the same things at all.

 

Not surprising you had a Taylor representative talk about how their guitars can have easy neck resets and Martins/Gibsons...blah blah blah.

 

A $100 Norlin era import Epiphone from the 70s with a bolt on neck can easily have its neck reset, also. Even Gibson stopped putting bolt on necks on their modern day Epiphone import acoustics because it was not considered proper for an acoustic guitar and represented lack of luthiership quality.

 

But, Taylor keep selling their bolt on necks and charging a ton of money for their guitars...after all, they can easily have neck resets. Go figure. A $2000 high quality acoustic guitar should not be easy to take apart and should need to be brought to a skilled luthier if it ever needs a major repair like a neck reset. I assume if there was a bona-fide structural error in a Gibson necessitaing a neck reset they'd cover it under warrantee...plus, they would probably fix it to last 40 years provided it was taken care of afterwards. But, to take a guitar in for just neck reset like its an automobile tire rotation or because it keeps needing a rouitine reset doesn't sound like a need of something that should be a high quality instrument.

 

I own 39 instruments. Only one of them ever needed a true neck reset...a Norlin era Gibson. Which, Gibson fixed and explained was from a structural wood flaw that caused it to warp.

 

Just my two cents of experience.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

 

Bill Collings and Dana Bourgeois seem to think a bolt on neck works just fine.

[merseybeat1963]

I haven't heard of any cases with a guitar this new not being reset under warranty by Martin ... yet. The cutoff age is not completely consistent, but the average seems to be dropping. Maybe the response to the warranty repair request depends partly upon the current state of their warranty budget.

 

I'm sure authorized Martin guitar repair folks could give you more detail on what get's covered these days and what doesn't.

 

-- Bob R

 

20 years is considered relatively new..in the guitar sense..

[QuestionMark]

[quote name=

Bill Collings and Dana Bourgeois seem to think a bolt on neck works just fine.

 

I presume Taylor paved the way for Collings to do so. Can't comment on Bourgeoises. Fact is, they do work fine. Leo Fender proved that on electric guitars. But, there is something about old world acoustic guitar craftsmanship, especially for the price paid.

[merseybeat1963]

I presume Taylor paved the way for Collings to do so. Can't comment on Bourgeoises. Fact is, they do work fine. Leo Fender proved that on electric guitars. But, there is something about old world acoustic guitar craftsmanship, especially for the price paid.

 

Collings & Bourgeoises use bolt on necks?

[davenumber2]

Collings & Bourgeoises use bolt on necks?

 

Yep.

[Bryn6490]

Under Gibsons lifetime warranty does it cover a neck reset ?

A Taylor Authorized guy I asked said Taylor does...he thinks Martin does also but is not a service center for them, he said he is not sure about Gibson?

Thanks

The question is "does Gibson cover a neck reset under warranty?" I'm not sure what Taylor guitars or Martin guitars have to do with this question. Taylor guitars covers a neck reset under warranty for the original owner. Martin also covers neck reset under warranty, for the original owner. It's a good question. Does Gibson cover a neck reset under warrant?. The best way to get an answer is to call Gibson. By the way, GM replaced the leaking valve seals on my Chevy pickup truck under warranty.

[Bryn6490]

A Martin guitar from the 1930's and 1940's will not likely be owned by the original owner. The Life Time Warranty is for the original owner of the guitar. The life time warranty is not transferable. I'm not sure what Gibsons policy is.

[Bryn6490]

All acoustic guitars will someday need a neck reset. It's part of owning an acoustic guitar.

http://www.chicagofretworks.com/2008/08/21/vintage-gibson-dove-neck-reset/

[Bryn6490]

I presume Taylor paved the way for Collings to do so. Can't comment on Bourgeoises. Fact is, they do work fine. Leo Fender proved that on electric guitars. But, there is something about old world acoustic guitar craftsmanship, especially for the price paid.

Collings guitar started in 1973. Taylor guitars started 1974. Bourgeoises started in 1978.