Tman Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Yes; but that name was nothing to do with his 'speed' but because he broke top e-strings very frequently and he received a 'Slow Hand(-clap)' from the crowd as he changed strings...... P. Wow one L, I've never heard that before. I always thought it was a tongue in cheek reference to his "speed" of soloing like calling a tall person "shorty". Learn something new everyday. To give my 2 cents to the discussion at hand - both. Jeff beck is a good example of both elements used equally effectively in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 The other thing is that there are so MANY feelings that a listener can interpret...seems like when people reference this it's usually focused onj sadness and melancholy/longing...happiness is a feeling...anger is a feeling...jealousy is a feeling... It's something that typically does not even cross my mind when listening to or playing music. Does it sound cool? Then i'm down. You are so Metal and you don't even know it, The first thing that I notice as "feel" is intensity, whether is is a fast and pounding Thrash Metal riff or a slow solo by Gilmour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 You are so Metal and you don't even know it, Oh I know it bro!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyMoon Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Maybe it's speed....nothing better than Michael Angelo Batio for a father daughter dance at her wedding, or some good screamo at your best friends funaral......in all seriousness tho I think feeling is more important to being a good over all musician....speed is great and impressive but in all honesty after 2 or 3 minutes of just shredding it's....next....I mean should be the background music to Shindlers list?...um, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennis Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Wait a minute... Between this one, and the "mediocre Gibson" thread I sense a conspiracy to post deliberately vague question that spawn unwinnable discussions! keeps the forum alive anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I have one more word to add to this topic. Context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanH Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 A very important and pithy thread IMO... Opening up most guitar mags nowadays, one could get the impression that speed is the 'be all and end all' of musical success... Often appealing to the star struck newbies looking for role models Taking the 'classical' view from great symphonies by the likes of Beethoven, Mozart, Stravinsky et al There is a place for Adagio,Largo etc slow movements with great emotion and feeling Contrasted with Allegro,(Hey)Presto etc fast'n flashy movements demonstrating virtuosic challenging playing... J S Bach was renowned for his 'Toccatas' for organ, where technical skill and fast execution were the order of the day It can be no coincidence how many of the modern 'shredders' have studied Bach's music in depth for inspiration... IMO speed playing quickly becomes boring to listen to...but exciting when well placed in a performance... V You should play with feeling at all times. Otherwise it's just notes. Speed isn't important if it makes you F-up the song or make mistakes. I'd rather hear slow notes played with feeling than fast random notes saying hey look how fast I can play. I couldn't decide whether or not to leave this thread alone until I read Shred's response. He gets it. First let me say that most us have a style that is defined by our limitations. Very few players of any instrument have the ability to play fast with good technique. It requires a lot of practice, but also a refined blend of mental and digital dexterity and muscle memory. Being able to play fast with good technique is a gift. Anyone can play with feeling and emotion, but it is not always possible to conjure those feelings if you can't get into the spirit of music you're playing, whether its upbeat, funky, or heavy. It really helps to love what you play. All that being said, there are great players who either can't or don't play fast- Hendrix and Gilmour immediately come to mind. If Gilmour were a shredder, don't you think that a good many of his songs might never have been played or even written? The OP did probably word the question incorrectly. Speed is just a linear scale so we all play at varying degrees of speed. Just like pitch, volume, vibrato etc, it is a part of what makes up music. To intimate that 'speed' play is just random notes usually stems from ignorance of those styles or, perhaps, envy of fast technique. As zigzag says, it takes a lot of ability and practice to accurately play classical or jazz scales with any degree of rapidity. Here is an example of the emotion that can be conveyed with fast, technical play from Marty Friedman (solo is at 3:10): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujga-3p21xY The pentatonic scale is somewhat easier to play 'at speed' because fast trills and hammer ons can be more readily achieved with the two note per string arrangments of its five patterns. Even so, rapidly played pentatonics interspersed with wild vibrato can also exhibit "feel" as is often exemplified by Dave Murray (solo #1 at 2:50): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsmcDLDw9iw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 To intimate that 'speed' play is just random notes usually stems from ignorance of those styles or, perhaps, envy of fast technique. that's the best thing anyone has said so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Alan, thank you for posting that, I'd buy you a beer if you lived nearby. And like Ryan says we need context, what is fast Dave? I asked tongue in cheek if you meant Slayer, SRV or Yngwie but you did not say. What would be a song that you are actually trying to play that is giving you trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 This argument reminds me of the slow old sports car versus new fast sports car, its really a roundabout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJustice Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I feel that I ought be able to play with greater speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 blues is feeling, metal is speed ... i personally lean more toward a rhythm guitar (in the band) and my guitar choice, setup and style reflect that, heavier strings, higher action. i think there is divisible camps here, rhythm and lead, for example, the lead guitar is setup with lower action and lighter guage strings to make 'speed' easier ... a feather touch preference or a bit of a struggle ... it's what you like and what suits your duties in the band, man. :) i like the lp and can do well taking lead guit. with it, but honestly there are other styles of guitars that lend themselves better to different styles of music. i focus on classic rock covers, and funny thing is what comes out the other end of 'classic rock' as my own compositions tend to be country/folk/rock. hahaha Eh, remember Les Paul had feeling and speed, feeling and speed is c-l-a-s-s!!! Richie Blackmore has s-p-e-e-d!!! Mike Bloomfield had f-e-e-l-i-n-g!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 So it'd be "Timing Metal" instead of "Speed Metal"? I meant in terms of priority, silly. Speed can be utter rubbish if not properly controlled. Who wants to go 220 miles per hour only to hit a wall? I'd sooner go 120 and not knock over a single cone or spill my drink. I remember reading that the drummer for Metallica would speed up and go faster as the song played...the guys had to play faster to keep up. Gerat, you can go fast and be accurate, but who cares if you're not in sync with the rest of the band? Also, I take it for granted that with enough practice anyone can be fast. Maybe there are those who are faster, but everyone could be fast...provided they have healthy nimble hands. Not everyone has the patience to pace at high speeds. Heck, I know some piano pieces that have gorgeous bits meant to be played at a moderatelly challenging pace and when I FLY through them it sounds like poo even though I nail all the notes and keep in (an accelerated) time. I get so excited though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Speed can be utter rubbish if not properly controlled. Who wants to go 220 miles per hour only to hit a wall? I'd sooner go 120 and not knock over a single cone or spill my drink. I could say the same for sour bluesbends really. But then again, it's all excused because it's supposed to be ... feeling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Isn't music, like all other forms of art is a way of expressing feelings, thoughts? Showing off technical abilities is what is called professional sport. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Alan, thank you for posting that, I'd buy you a beer if you lived nearby. And like Ryan says we need context, what is fast Dave? I asked tongue in cheek if you meant Slayer, SRV or Yngwie but you did not say. What would be a song that you are actually trying to play that is giving you trouble? When I say fast I don't mean shred fast I just mean normal human fast... Lets see, I'm talking Jimmy Page fast for example. I don't think anyone would consider him a shredder but he plays some great leads that I would consider fast. He also does it with lots of feeling too or Gary Moore... I don't think any player had more feeling than Gary and he was a very fast and extremely accurate player. I admit I am not up on my shredders a couple of the things I have seen in this thread are impressive but not what I need of want to be able to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Playing fast or slow is just a technical aspect of playing. Whatever fits the song best! Playing fast sweep-picked arpeggios on song "Over the rainbow" would make it unpleasant to listen to. Or I could came up with examples for the opposite case... You can't perform any song without feelings, regardless of whether it's a fast-paced, or a slow tempo song. If You don't put Yourself into Your art, the audience will not appreciate it either. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Playing fast sweep-picked arpeggios on song "Over the rainbow" would make it unpleasant to listen to. Malikon could do it and make it sweet. I guarantee that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Isn't music, like all other forms of art is a way of expressing feelings, thoughts? not exclusively... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 not exclusively... Sorry! Forgot about attracting chicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Malikon could do it and make it sweet. I guarantee that!!! OK. Let's forget about "Over the rainbow", let's say Beethoven's "Moonlight sonata"... (If You say Malmsteen could make it sweet, I'll jump off the building). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo68 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Guess it depends on what type of music you are going for. I can play scales and solos pretty fast, but I'd have been better off spending my time riffing out to a metronome instead cause I rarely use those type of solos anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Ok do Dave is talking about Jimmy Page fast licks, there you that's the context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cú Chulainn Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 OK. Let's forget about "Over the rainbow", let's say Beethoven's "Moonlight sonata"... (If You say Malmsteen could make it sweet, I'll jump off the building). I wouldn't feel too safe about that, since classical music is Yngwies forte and closest to his heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 ....let's say Beethoven's "Moonlight sonata"... (If You say Malmsteen could make it sweet, I'll jump off the building). The Adagio Sostenuto, I grant you; but I wouldn't bet against him doing a good job of the Presto Agitato... P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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