Does Fender have good and bad "years"?

[heymisterk]

Hi All,

 

One of the interesting things that comes up from time to time is the quality of Gibson products from year to year.

 

While the consensus seems to be that every guitar is different, and any year is destined to have a few lemons, the thinking on this page seems to be that the late '00s were not so great for Gibby's QC, at least based on what I have read on this Forum. The '90s seem to be great; early '70s of the Norlin Era not good, though that era has its fans.

 

Does Fender have the same kind of opinions? I ask because I am in the mood for a used MIA Tele, and frankly, there is no way I am going to be able to play every one that I am interested in.

 

Any thoughts?

[Blueblooded]

I've been playing strats at all the local stores and am about to buy a 2012 American Standard. The quality of the Fender American stuff in the last few years has really ramped up, perhaps the best ever. If you're looking at used MIM guitars, they are pretty nice - play a few and get one that feels good to you. Pickups are cheap in those and you should consider upgrading or look for a used that has already been upgraded. I do suggest you try 2012 or 13 American Standard. The new Fat 50's pickups, hand rolled edges on the fretbard and fretwork are all amazing and the reason that this the axe I'm going for.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Yes, I am not very knowledgeable but Gibson's Norlin years (68 to 86 I think) are almost mirrored by Fender's CBS years.

 

Now let someone who really knows correct my dates! Where's Pippy when you need him?

[ksdaddy]

Respectfully submitted, no.

 

Don't buy the hype.

 

I've had pre-CBS dogs, CBS dogs, FMIC dogs. Ditto for gems. Judge each one on it's own merits.

[Riffster]

^^^Yea, it seems some of the CBS years dislike comes from the fact that Strats had different specs, like the larger headstock and hotter pickups.

 

The quality during those years was also inconsistent however, the '77 Strat that I got to play for a week was really nice minus the fact that the (maple) fingerboard finish was very thick.

 

My '05 Strat is seriously well built, that thing is a tank, it does however have a 3-piece body.

[Gibson Artist]

Hi All,

 

One of the interesting things that comes up from time to time is the quality of Gibson products from year to year.

 

While the consensus seems to be that every guitar is different, and any year is destined to have a few lemons, the thinking on this page seems to be that the late '00s were not so great for Gibby's QC, at least based on what I have read on this Forum. The '90s seem to be great; early '70s of the Norlin Era not good, though that era has its fans.

 

Does Fender have the same kind of opinions? I ask because I am in the mood for a used MIA Tele, and frankly, there is no way I am going to be able to play every one that I am interested in.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Its not just Fender. I own a 1000 dollar martin and have tried many other big name gits but a 1980 12 string Guild was still the best sounding acoustic ive ever heard. In the early 90s they moved the plant out of Rhode Island and there was a noticeable drop in quality. Heard from some friends that their new gits are back to the level they used to be but if i a choice between a 80s guild or modern id prob take the 80s just for nostalgia. There are many people who do not like Fenders after cbs or 70s Gibby but i wouldnt complain about owning a 70s Strat or SG.

[stein]

Well, I'd say that regardless of which year, what said about getting some gems and some dogs are true for any year. But, there are some years that finding a dog is the norm, and finding a gem harder.

 

And regarding the spec change, that's true as well. Some don't go for the spec change, and refer to that as 'bad quality', while some that do like the spec change judge them differently. Similer to the way someone might like a nice pancake body maple necked LP with a big headstock that weighs 13 pounds, but it will never be anything like a 50's or 60's LP.

 

In the case of Fender, the quality change and the spec change (two different issues, I think of it), it was gradual. '65 is the official Start of the CBS era, and aside from a few logo changes and cosmetics, are the same stuff built by almost entirely the same crew. By '76, the guitars are completely different in every way, different finish, different tooling to make them, different shapes, different electronics, hardware, every detail, and nothing, NOTHING, is the same as a pre-CBS. Fast forward to '81, and we are talking the peak of a dog of a guitar. Generally very heavy, goopy finish, cheap pups, cheap hardware, and very little effort in the hand work which results in some wierd feeling necks.

 

Between '81 and '84, there was a real effort made, and a lot of newer models. Like a transistion period to make good again, and quality is way up, but specs are even more different at the same time, and very "un-Fender" like. Then CBS sells, the new owners shut down the factory, they atart the reissues, and quality as well as specs get real good, real fast.

 

Having said all that, while the quality drop is pretty predictable, even knowing that, I have played some real, REAL nice ones from any era or year and been surprised.

 

I might get flamed for this, and it's just opinion, but I have made perhaps 3 trips to GC in the past year or two, and I think the quality of the American ones and Mexican ones are slipping big time, while the Asian ones are getting a lot better.

[stein]

I forgot to even adress the Gibson comments:

 

My opinion and observation about 00's being lower quality than 90's is a perfect example of internet banter. I find Gibby's made recently to be the best they have ever been. More internet scrutiny does not translate to reality, especially in this case.

 

You also HAVE to notice that Gibby is making a lot of cheaper guitars, and lots of models that cost a lot less, It's not realistic to compare these to more expensive models, but if you compare them to the rest of the market such as what Fender is putting out, they are a lot better than what most are doing while they are priced the same or lower.

[Gibson Artist]

Well, I'd say that regardless of which year, what said about getting some gems and some dogs are true for any year. But, there are some years that finding a dog is the norm, and finding a gem harder.

 

And regarding the spec change, that's true as well. Some don't go for the spec change, and refer to that as 'bad quality', while some that do like the spec change judge them differently. Similer to the way someone might like a nice pancake body maple necked LP with a big headstock that weighs 13 pounds, but it will never be anything like a 50's or 60's LP.

 

In the case of Fender, the quality change and the spec change (two different issues, I think of it), it was gradual. '65 is the official Start of the CBS era, and aside from a few logo changes and cosmetics, are the same stuff built by almost entirely the same crew. By '76, the guitars are completely different in every way, different finish, different tooling to make them, different shapes, different electronics, hardware, every detail, and nothing, NOTHING, is the same as a pre-CBS. Fast forward to '81, and we are talking the peak of a dog of a guitar. Generally very heavy, goopy finish, cheap pups, cheap hardware, and very little effort in the hand work which results in some wierd feeling necks.

 

Between '81 and '84, there was a real effort made, and a lot of newer models. Like a transistion period to make good again, and quality is way up, but specs are even more different at the same time, and very "un-Fender" like. Then CBS sells, the new owners shut down the factory, they atart the reissues, and quality as well as specs get real good, real fast.

 

Having said all that, while the quality drop is pretty predictable, even knowing that, I have played some real, REAL nice ones from any era or year and been surprised.

 

I might get flamed for this, and it's just opinion, but I have made perhaps 3 trips to GC in the past year or two, and I think the quality of the American ones and Mexican ones are slipping big time, while the Asian ones are getting a lot better.

 

I tried a Strat made in Japan from the 90s at a local mom n pop and it played beautifully, it seemed abit of a different shape, perhaps a tiny bit smaller but still comfortable for me. For me personally, im not that big a snob about where an axe is made. While it gives a certain sense of pride to own american like Gibson and Martin i find that mexi and japan gits to be very good bang for the buck most of the time. Ive played Burny Les Pauls that were better than similarly priced Gibsons but i never had the cash when i found them and when i did they were gone. Ibanez is a company ive often thought makes solid gits, my daughters came perfectly setup and in tune right out of the box for like 150 bucks. It was all black with black tuning heads and built in tuner, she loves it. their Hollowbodies are pretty sweet also, my af 105 was a work of art.

 

[jaxson50]

Does Fender have good and bad years?

 

 

Don't we all?

[daveinspain]

I've heard talk about CBS and pre CBS... Not sure which is better but I would have to say now is a bad time, not for the quality of the product though more for it's instability in the market place, debt and all that stuff...

[heymisterk]

Lots of good insight here. And it has led to what I feared most: To really know, I have to actually play the instrument. Or buy it and hope for the best!

[stein]

Lots of good insight here. And it has led to what I feared most: To really know, I have to actually play the instrument. Or buy it and hope for the best!

Depending on what year it is, you might be able to nail down a few expectations on what the guitar is MOST likely to be like if taking a chance.

[cookieman15061]

Respectfully submitted, no.

 

Don't buy the hype.

 

I've had pre-CBS dogs, CBS dogs, FMIC dogs. Ditto for gems. Judge each one on it's own merits.

 

 

Ok why did you buy the dogs? Thought you'd learn your lesson after the first one.

[cookieman15061]

Lots of good insight here. And it has led to what I feared most: To really know, I have to actually play the instrument. Or buy it and hope for the best!

 

 

I can only give you my experience in buying online. In the past year I've bought a Fender rosewood tele and a Mark Knopfler signature strat. Both guitars were perfect out of the case. I also bought a standard strat back in 98 which I've yet to have to set up. Not even a tweak aside from new strings every couple months.

Am I lucky or blessed? Both I'm guessing but if you don't bond with it most retailers have a 30 day return policy.

 

It's the best option when local retailers don't carry the guitar your gassin' for.

[heymisterk]

 

It's the best option when local retailers don't carry the guitar your gassin' for.

 

I have gotten almost every guitar I have ever owned either from eBay or CraigsList. Yes, I am a cheap b*stard.

[ksdaddy]

Ok why did you buy the dogs? Thought you'd learn your lesson after the first one.

 

Most of them came from ebay. No chance to try them out before buying.

[AXE®]

Bad Fender.

 

 

[kaleb]

I think the problem with the late-70s/early-80s Fenders was the lack of pride. I have found Gibson's Norlin-era guitars to be just fine for the most part.

 

That being said, there's too much hype and propaganda with this stuff.

[Buxom]

Ok why did you buy the dogs? Thought you'd learn your lesson after the first one.

 

Because he likes dogs. I'm more of a cat person, myself, considering I own 5.

[bonzoboy]

Even though the most valuable Fenders are the earliest ones from the 50s,a large number of people-myself included-think that the "L" series Fenders('62-'65)were the best made and the best sounding.I have 3 "L" series Fenders-a '65 Strat,'65 Jaguar and a '65 Mustang.They are just incredible guitars and with the Strats especially the pups weren't as hot as the pups on the 50s Strats and had the really sweet bell-like tone that people have come to prefer.On Jimi Hendrix's first 2 albums he used "L" series Strats and on songs such as "The Wing Cries Mary","Castles Made Of Sand","May This Be Love","Little Wing","One Rainy Wish" and even "Are You Experienced" the bell-like tone is unmistakable.The 57/62 and Tex-Mex pickups being made today are the closet that they have made yet that comes anywhere near the tone of the "L" series and the new '62 reissues capture that tone too.There was a period in the 80s when Fender was going through many transitions that people take issue with the quality and design of some Strats,especially the Standard Strat in 1983 that had one of the tone controls dropped and just one volume and a master tone control for all 3 pups.The input was also moved to where the 2nd tone control would've been and was flush mounted,needless to say this configuration was hardly greeted with open arms and was quickly dropped.

[kaleb]

Even though the most valuable Fenders are the earliest ones from the 50s,a large number of people-myself included-think that the "L" series Fenders('62-'65)were the best made and the best sounding.I have 3 "L" series Fenders-a '65 Strat,'65 Jaguar and a '65 Mustang.They are just incredible guitars and with the Strats especially the pups weren't as hot as the pups on the 50s Strats and had the really sweet bell-like tone that people have come to prefer.On Jimi Hendrix's first 2 albums he used "L" series Strats and on songs such as "The Wing Cries Mary","Castles Made Of Sand","May This Be Love","Little Wing","One Rainy Wish" and even "Are You Experienced" the bell-like tone is unmistakable.The 57/62 and Tex-Mex pickups being made today are the closet that they have made yet that comes anywhere near the tone of the "L" series and the new '62 reissues capture that tone too.There was a period in the 80s when Fender was going through many transitions that people take issue with the quality and design of some Strats,especially the Standard Strat in 1983 that had one of the tone controls dropped and just one volume and a master tone control for all 3 pups.The input was also moved to where the 2nd tone control would've been and was flush mounted,needless to say this configuration was hardly greeted with open arms and was quickly dropped.

 

Not to mention that epic flop of a vibrato system....

[tazzboy]

Yes Fender has good years and bad years just like Gibson.

[ZenKen]

I owned a 74 Stratocaster. Had a huge slop in the neck joint. I liked the walnut color with the black pickguard, but that is all. Bad fret work. I paid $350.00 for that guitar back in 1974 with the rectangular case. The MIM Strats now are as good as the one I am talking about. Maybe even better.

 

 

I've said this here before, that this is the genius of Leo's design. If you love the body and the electronics but hate the neck, a screwdriver and 15 minutes allows you to replace the neck you don't like. If the body has some flaw that makes it unsatisfactory for you it's a breeze to pop off the guard and most of the electronics and replace the body with one available from multiple sources.

[Septic]

Give me another 72 Strat and I'll lick your boots clean for a year!

 

Teles seem to be quite consistant throughout the last 40 years in my opinion, but Strats are something else....

 

I've found every Strat I've owned (around a dozen) to be noticably different in one way or another ... Even if they were made in the same year, in the same factory???... You can find absolute heaven and annoyingly ordinary amongst any batch in my personal experience.