AnneS Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 . ...all that forearm meat laying on the bass side lower bout must be a real tone killer - . B) . That cracked me up good...😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffchris Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I noticed last month that the J30 I bought has rosewood pins. I did a quick google search, and there was a thread on AGF, where the people were saying that the pins doint make any difference. I have bought some plastic ones though, so next time I restring I'll see what they are like :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I don't know if the bone is any better than the plastic pins. Most of the times I've heard this discussion it was an attempt to denegrate Gibsons (but not this time). For me, it all comes down to what you like. So many uninformed guitar buyers hear so many things, and even after hearing these things they still don't know more than before. I've replaced plastic pins with bone and in all sincerity I don't know if it made a difference. I guess if you have a guitar that you believe you can improve the sound on, maybe swap the pins and see what happens. Just my view, but I suspect a bone saddle would play a larger role than the pins. Anyways, play what you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I installed these on my SWD, low cost, harder than the original ones, they fit perfectly. http://www.guitarelectronics.com/product/GBABP7/Gibson-Montana-Ivory-Colored-Bridge-Pins.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I've seen this used as a bashing tool also, which is not my intention at all, I'm 4-deep in Gibsons all in the last couple of years so I think my fondness of them is fairly clear, I would however say that shipping with the seamed cheapest of the cheap plastic pins on guitars costing 2-3k all the way up to 6k, probably beyond is quite incredible. I should also note that unlike many others I'm not convinced pins make as much difference as some claim, but for point of principal these are made, marketed and sold as a icon, a luxury guitar, there are countless takes of how long someone saved up to finally own a gibson etc... all to be met with fairly cheapo components on some models. As much of a fan as I am of the guitars, I have to say I find those criticisms to be fair. Guitars costing 2k and up should not be shipping with double-cheap parts like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Id bet he's a vegan/vegetarian (Browne)and if he's like a guy I know he'll be against the bone for that..for some indirect reason..and specified these. The guy I know is so deficient he even feeds his dog macaroni & cheese etc anything except meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I've seen this used as a bashing tool also, which is not my intention at all, I'm 4-deep in Gibsons all in the last couple of years so I think my fondness of them is fairly clear, I would however say that shipping with the seamed cheapest of the cheap plastic pins on guitars costing 2-3k all the wya up to 6k, probably beyond is quite incredible. I should also note that unlike many others I'm not convinced pins make as much difference as some claim, but for point of principal these are made, marketed and sold as a icon, a luxury guitar, there are countless takes of how long someone saved up to finally own a gibson etc... all to be met with fairly cheapo components on some models. As much of a fan as I am of the guitars, I have to say I find those criticisms to be fair. Guitars costing 2k and up should not be shipping with double-cheap parts like that. Agree completely. There's nothing wrong with plastic pins, but at least make them decent plastic pins. I happen to replace plastic pins with bone on most of my guitars, in part because I like details like abalone dots or "vintage" coloring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Id bet he's a vegan/vegetarian (Browne)and if he's like a guy I know he'll be against the bone for that..for some indirect reason..and specified these. The guy I know is so deficient he even feeds his dog macaroni & cheese etc anything except meat. That's a pretty odd criticism to make against a man you probably don't know. Whether he is a vegetarian or not--and there's nothing on his website or wiki bio to suggest that--Browne is quite involved with groups dedicated to reducing plastic pollution, so he might be accused of having an anti-plastic bias (to confuse things even more). A vegan, by the way, wouldn't eat macaroni and cheese. Unlike some vegetarians, vegans avoid consuming animal products such as eggs and milk-based products including cheese and butter. I could never be a vegan. Who would want to give up ice cream? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Id bet he's a vegan/vegetarian (Browne)and if he's like a guy I know he'll be against the bone for that..for some indirect reason..and specified these. The guy I know is so deficient he even feeds his dog macaroni & cheese etc anything except meat. Vegans wouldn't eat cheese, vegetarians perhaps, but not vegans. I'm sure I saw a pic of him wearing leather too, so my guess is that he's not a vegan, or he's a very poor one when it comes to animal hide related products. Even if he did specify those pins, fair do's, but it's a 6K guitar with the cheapest-of-the-cheap plastic pins and that fact alone probably means the plastics involved are not from a socially / environmentally proactive source otherwise they'd be more expensive and probably somewhat fancier too to justify the upcharge. Agree completely. There's nothing wrong with plastic pins, but at least make them decent plastic pins. Exactly.... Not quite a deal breaker in regard to buying a guitar for me personally I guess, but a remarkably low-rent decision to roll with and as such I can fully understand where bashers are coming from on this particular point. Now look at the price it costs us as individuals to buy comparable pins, not much at all, now imagine what they cost for a high unit number corporate order.. considerably less again. I love my guitars, but I do find it hard to understand some of the cheapo decisions that are made at Gibson HQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 That's a pretty odd criticism to make against a man you probably don't know. Whether he is a vegetarian or not--and there's nothing on his website or wiki bio to suggest that--Browne is quite involved with groups dedicated to reducing plastic pollution, so he might be accused of having an anti-plastic bias (to confuse things even more). A vegan, by the way, wouldn't eat macaroni and cheese. Unlike some vegetarians, vegans avoid consuming animal products such as eggs and milk-based products including cheese and butter. I could never be a vegan. Who would want to give up ice cream? Im not criticizing him in what i wrote, I just say this probably is the reason there are plastic pins on there. Though.. I was indirectly suggesting nutritional deficiency,...for 30 years its been an endless mantra of causes in that same resonant monotone from that guy...reminds me of my friend. Gotta say around 17 years old I decided not to eat meat for a couple of years, almost killed myself. Went from a 6 ft 185 lb to 140-3 lbs..Didnt like vegetables & I couldnt afford to independently feed myself what i did like. In my neighborhood was the base of that Sri Chinmoy guy..all a them were vegetarians,painted everything light blue..my friend,a really fantastic guitar player influenced me..and so I proceeded to voluntarily starve myself. John McLaughlin & Carlos Santana lived in that section of Jamaica Queens for a while to be near that guy(Chinmoy) and recorded an album, partly, in Mc's basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 PM..your probably right.. just a cheap way to go...Amazing on such a priced guitar, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Not quite a deal breaker in regard to buying a guitar for me personally I guess, but a remarkably low-rent decision to roll with and as such I can fully understand where bashers are coming from on this particular point. Now look at the price it costs us as individuals to buy comparable pins, not much at all, now imagine what they cost for a high unit number corporate order.. considerably less again. I love my guitars, but I do find it hard to understand some of the cheapo decisions that are made at Gibson HQ. Maybe they just do it to annoy us...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Maybe they just do it to annoy us...... or one of the bean-counter execs in charge of purchasing just likes to get abused online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 or one of the bean-counter execs in charge of purchasing just likes to get abused online. I can see the tight grin on his face now as he gleefully reads the abuse we hurl at him. I bet he goes home at the end of the day and kicks the dog on his way through the door....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I can see the tight grin on his face now as he gleefully reads the abuse we hurl at him. I bet he goes home at the end of the day and kicks the dog on his way through the door....... Nah, that kind of man is too cheap to have a dog... he probably posts on forums that he can't see the point of dogs or pets in general... on the other hand maybe he calls himself suzie on a wild Tuesday night and has a wardrobe full of form fitted cheap import plastic dresses. We'll never know, we can only assume he wont last long... none of the execs do it seems, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Wannabe Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I've experimented with both ebony and ivoroid pins on my J50, but always came back to the cheap plastic factory pins because they give the tone I want. I also put a bone Colosi saddle in it, but switched back to the (plastic?!?!) factory saddle because I think it sounds the best. I've found the same thing with my Martins -- I prefer the plastic pins with a Tusq saddle (sometimes bone saddle). Maybe my tastes in guitar sound run cheap?... :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Maybe my tastes in guitar sound run cheap?... :unsure: This is not guitar forum friendly enough, you have to sell it, man... you prefer a sound with "economic complexities" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT underestimate the influence of bean counters on corporate decision-making. Ain't that the truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I've experimented with both ebony and ivoroid pins on my J50, but always came back to the cheap plastic factory pins because they give the tone I want. I also put a bone Colosi saddle in it, but switched back to the (plastic?!?!) factory saddle because I think it sounds the best. I've found the same thing with my Martins -- I prefer the plastic pins with a Tusq saddle (sometimes bone saddle). Maybe my tastes in guitar sound run cheap?... :unsure: Well, as I remember, your taste also runs to the sound of mid-60's J-45's as well. It's a good thing we don't all like the same thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 If I know you 15 %, jt, there another factor in your scenery also : Originality. And I fully understand, as you are the heavy concept-man you are. But from a sound-wise point of view, there might be variations allowed – simply to compensate for sonic irregularities grown into the instrument over those many years. I'm certain that you are right on all counts. But, on average, I still contend that adding mass to the bridge in the form of bone and especially brass or fossilized ivory is not a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I'm certain that you are right on all counts. But, on average, I still contend that adding mass to the bridge in the form of bone and especially brass or fossilized ivory is not a good thing. I'm not adverse to your thoughts here, JT, I can understand the thinking, I'd have to investigate more personally to have a proper opinion. As said earlier its not a big issue for me but I do agree the stock pins are fairly cheap. The only surety here is its not the last time the issue will come up ;). ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I've experimented with both ebony and ivoroid pins on my J50, but always came back to the cheap plastic factory pins because they give the tone I want. I also put a bone Colosi saddle in it, but switched back to the (plastic?!?!) factory saddle because I think it sounds the best. I've found the same thing with my Martins -- I prefer the plastic pins with a Tusq saddle (sometimes bone saddle). Maybe my tastes in guitar sound run cheap?... :unsure: You must be a vegetarian then : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodmeister Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Pin materials should be based primarily on their sonic qualities not cost. Just because something is more expensive, doesn't mean a better sound. Overall, I suspect plastic might be the best material for most people: it's hard and lightweight, though other materials' sound might suit your personal tastes. I do think that plastic pins on an expenive guitar like the Jackson Browne should be polished to eliminate the mold seam found on most pin bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljohnr Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Below is a photo of the pins on a $6,000 Jackson Browne Signature model. They appear to be bone (the shine seems to make them appear bone to me.), but also appear to be crooked as cemetery stones. THIS bugs me more than plastic pins on a $6,000 guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Below is a photo of the pins on a $6,000 Jackson Browne Signature model. They appear to be bone (the shine seems to make them appear bone to me.), but also appear to be crooked as cemetery stones. THIS bugs me more than plastic pins on a $6,000 guitar. The pins don't look fully seated in the photo. They seem to be sitting up, almost like the way Martin fits their pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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