Jasper6120 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Hi all I have an old Gibson ES 150 fitted with a single P90. I quite like the tone but I'm finding that the pickups are a little too bright and dynamic for my style of playing (plus the wiring in my house makes for quite buzzy, hum based practicing). I really do benefit from the warmer and slightly compressed feel of a nice set of humbuckers but the last thing I want to do is cut a big ol' hole in the front of this machine to put them in, plus I like the look of P90s. What I want to ask all the people in the know out there is if there are a good set of p90 pickups out there that are hum cancelling and also actually sound like a good set of Gibson humbuckers? I want to maintain the original look of the guitar and if I can put the pickups underneath the original old P90 covers, that's even better. For inspiration, here's Martijn Van Iterson getting some beautiful warm tones out of a Gibson ES 125: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHyUQyxkofw Cheers Jordan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjsinla Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 1362116709[/url]' post='1336769']Hi all I have an old Gibson ES 150 fitted with a single P90. I quite like the tone but I'm finding that the pickups are a little too bright and dynamic for my style of playing (plus the wiring in my house makes for quite buzzy, hum based practicing). I really do benefit from the warmer and slightly compressed feel of a nice set of humbuckers but the last thing I want to do is cut a big ol' hole in the front of this machine to put them in, plus I like the look of P90s. What I want to ask all the people in the know out there is if there are a good set of p90 pickups out there that are hum cancelling and also actually sound like a good set of Gibson humbuckers? I want to maintain the original look of the guitar and if I can put the pickups underneath the original old P90 covers, that's even better. For inspiration, here's Martijn Van Iterson getting some beautiful warm tones out of a Gibson ES 125: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHyUQyxkofw Cheers Jordan What about a Gibson mini humbucker? Also, what kind of amplifier is he using? And where do you think he set his tone controls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper6120 Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 What about a Gibson mini humbucker? Hello I'm trying to avoid altering the look of the guitar. I'm sure there's a P90 out there which will do what I am looking for, I just haven't found it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I usually don't comment on pups I have no firsthand experience with, but I might look up Lindy Fralin pups (google it, you'll get contact info). I have tested the and bought a number of his pups, and in particular, the P90 he makes is a very good pup, the equal of a Gibby, maybe a tad better. He is also adept at altering them to suite sounds and styles, and has a rep for being able to match the customer's demands. His PAF style humbuckers also have a good rep like the P-90, although I haven't tried them. Said all that to say, he HAS made a "humbucking P-90" that he seems to be proud of. Pretty much exactly what you are describing you want. Personally, I have never found any stacked humbucker or any "noise cancelling" version of a single coil I liked, or thought worthwhile. And I have tried a lot of them in Strats, as well as the dreaded P-100 Gibby one. I have given up that hope that there would be one. I haven't tried the Fralin one, but if I had your wishes, I would try that one first, as he has both the knowledge of a good P-90, humbucker experience, experience "tweaking" the design, and a good knowledge of what fits into the hole and covers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjsinla Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 1362118300[/url]' post='1336775']Hello I'm trying to avoid altering the look of the guitar. I'm sure there's a P90 out there which will do what I am looking for, I just haven't found it. I know that Gibson makes a stacked humbucker that looks like a p90. I thought that they called it the H90. However, I don't see it on their website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I have a couple Gibson Blueshawks which are equipped with a noise canceling P90. It looks just like a regular P90, same size and everything but it has a second dummy coil that cancels the noise of a regular P90. They sound pretty good too. I don't know if Gibson sells them separately or not but I would imagine they do. The pickup is called a blues 90... Check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennis Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 If you're OK with a just slightly different appearance something like this maybe? just google "P90 sized humbucker" and you should be on track for some options. edit: and thanks for that sweet jazz clip. great way to start my morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Just a couple of points...maybe stating the obvious... A single P90 often has a tendency to be noisy...hence the drive to invent the H/B in the 50's Jazzers like the ES 175 were single P90 initially, used by Herb Ellis et al... Many players love the 'bite' of the traditional P90...attempts to buck the hum sometimes water down the sound... Nowadays twin sets of P90's from custom suppliers like Bare Knuckle can be spec'd as RW/RP...Reverse Wound/Reverse Polarity Which can effectively buck the hum in mid switch position Another option, if appropriate, would be a Charlie Christian P/U...a replica of one of the first P/U's ever... Both Lollar and Seymour Duncan do beautiful re-creations of the CC... V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper6120 Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 I'd like to get my ears around those p90's that were used in the Blueshawks, that seems interesting. I have listened to lots of players who use the P90's for their 'bite' - which is great for rock, they also have a nice unmitigated punch which can be satisfying as a guitarist. The thing is, I'm a jazz player - think Wes or that example I showed you of Martijn Van Iterson. Bite and clarity in the top end aren't big in the picture there. I have also used Gibson staple pickups but they are even more dynamic and 'hi-fi'. I do like the CC pickups, but again the issue is in maintaining the appearance, and I wont be chopping into the front of a 60 year old guitar. The stipulation is that the pickup must look completely stock, just be hum cancelling and have a bit more of the compressed humbucker sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper6120 Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 What about a Gibson mini humbucker? Also, what kind of amplifier is he using? And where do you think he set his tone controls? Martijn often uses a polytone amp, comparable to the roland cube. I've been using a fender deluxe and a 1959 bassman with a single JBL d130 15" for loud gigs. I'd be guessing he has his tone on about 5 or 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeriy Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Jasper6120, obviously, you better try to contact with a individual guitar master. To reduce the brightness it can be even done by replacement volume pots from 500k to 250 (200) K etc. or some changes in the value of the caps in the tone pots. Though, also wait for the end of the year, I think, Gibson, maybe, will output new pickups that you want without noise (hum) and with a P-90 sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krock Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I know that Gibson makes a stacked humbucker that looks like a p90. I thought that they called it the H90. However, I don't see it on their website. You are correct I believe in that it is the H-90. Billy Joe Armstrong has it in his sig LP Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 You are correct I believe in that it is the H-90. Billy Joe Armstrong has it in his sig LP Jr The H-90 is exclusive to the Billie Joe Armstrong Signature LP Jr and the Doublecut variant. Gibson's standard hum-canceling P90 is the P100. -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky4 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Phil X PX-90? http://philxstore.com/pickups_px90.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazarusvt84 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 My used 2011 LP Studio 70's Tribute came with a set of these (P90-HX)...they are as noiseless as any HB I've owned. Sound great too. http://www.kinman.com/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 The H-90 is, or started, as a custom pup designed for Billy Joe for his sig guitar. It's an actual P-90 (same coil, same pup), but an added coil added to the bottom. Comes in 4 conductor wiring so the bottom coil can be switched off. It is not, however, humbucking, and when the extra coil is switched on, noise increases a bit (along with output...it's a little hotter and thicker with the added coil). The references to it being a "humbucker" or noise-cancelling in some Gibson literature is a mistake. Understandable that it would be assumed to be noise-cancelling. Problably the reason it's not available aftermarket or for sale separately, is it doesn't work, and has limited uses. I have seen another called the "P-90H". It sounds like the same pup in descriptions, but I don't know if it is or not. I think it was used in the Darkfire or something like that, another "limited edition" guitar. Never heard of the "Blues 90". Sounds interesting. The P-100, that's a hum-cancelling pup. It's made using two VERY hot coils, but the coils are wired up to give a standard output. You can't really split the coils and have anything useful. The output, tone, and frequency range are pretty much the same as a P-90, but it lacks the character and "color" of a P-90. Actually, it lacks character and color regardless of what you compare it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 IMHO, there is no humbucker in the world that sounds as good as a good P90. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper6120 Posted March 2, 2013 Author Share Posted March 2, 2013 I have a strange kind of paradoxical situation when I play my guitar. To be honest, when I'm playing at home it is buzzy, but I dig the tone. When I play at gigs I find myself digging in and messing up my technique because of a strange dynamics issue I seem to get. It also has an intense resonant frequency in the key of F, if I'm reasonably loud, that F note takes off like a horse to a gunshot. Its all pretty ugly. Actually I have a feeling, now that I mention it, the resonance issue is the guitar (I tried an alnico V pickup in there with the same resonant feedback issue) more than the pickup's own frequency response. I called Lindy Fralin last night (4 am here, 12pm there) and he recommended that I get a 5% overwound front hum cancelling P90 with weaker magnets. I know that the overwound pickup will be a tad louder and darker, but what kind of properties do these 'weaker' magnets give it? I'd also like to know if anyone has had similar issues with dynamics in a LIVE playing situation. Cheers Jordan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 I know that the overwound pickup will be a tad louder and darker, but what kind of properties do these 'weaker' magnets give it? This is a sweeping generalization, but generally stronger magnets=more treble response. This is why high-output pickups generally use Alnico V or Ceramic Magnets, because they're much stronger than something like Alnico II or Alnico III, and therefore help compensate for the treble loss from an overwound coil. Weaker magnets also tend to have a smoother high end than stronger variants. This is probably why you were recommended weakened (or "degaussed") Alnico V magnets. The Alnico V will help recoup some treble that you'll lose from the overwound coil, but degaussing the magnet will smooth off the top end so you won't get so much "bite". Which in theory should work perfectly for your application. -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper6120 Posted March 2, 2013 Author Share Posted March 2, 2013 I'm not sure that he was talking about using an alnico V magnet in there. I've sent him an email asking what he meant by 'weaker' magnets. I hope he gets back to me with some specifics... I would imagine they would be alnico 2 magnets in there, which are the nicest magnets I think. Less hi fi, more sustain and warmth. What I don't know is whether he meant weaker magnets - the alnico 2 OR a weaker version of the alnico 2 magnets. I'm a bit puzzled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyMoon Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 IMHO, there is no humbucker in the world that sounds as good as a good P90. YMMV +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeriy Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 ... I called Lindy Fralin last night (4 am here, 12pm there) and he recommended that I get a 5% overwound front hum cancelling P90 with weaker magnets. I know that the overwound pickup will be a tad louder and darker, but what kind of properties do these 'weaker' magnets give it? I'd also like to know if anyone has had similar issues with dynamics in a LIVE playing situation. Cheers Jordan Probably for your guitar there is some individual resonance of its own (maybe a non-standard) that is passed by a string. But any resonance defect (or vice versa excessive subtraction defect in harmonics) is aggravated by a strong magnet, i.e. the strong magnet even makes worse these resonance or subtraction defects (therefore, by the way, active EMG pickups have weak magnets since the non-bright humbucker sound will be even worse with active preamp and strong magnet). But a resonance, as known, is killed by a slightly changing in some parameters of a resonance system. Apparently so, your Lindy Fralin said to you to do these changes by slightly 5%. I.e. I think, he had in mind to reduce the magnet force by the same 5-10% (i.e. just a little enough) and then to compensate a loss in the pickup output signal the overwound must be by about 5% too (this is approximately, of course). What is more, a small overwound will additionally reduce the brightness in the sound as you want. But the sound resonance in an electric guitar may be of another nature if your guitar is old, it is possible unglued or cracked coatings, veneer etc. I had such resonance on the 1st string for my old guitar.It was unpleasant and even it is on some of my guitar records. I poured epoxy glue in all holes and cracks and eliminated dangling shield foil in the volume-tone compartment. After that, this resonance disappeared :) , though I still do not know what was the cause: dangling foil or the unglued and cracked coatings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymisterk Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 IMHO, there is no humbucker in the world that sounds as good as a good P90. YMMV Amen. Every PU has a drawback, but when I push my P-90s through my Mesa, all is right with the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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