Murph Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 We have found the Gibson " Trigger " ! Gettin' there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I think this is something that only a real gibson lover would want to fix so unless they have a General Manager who loves the company and is willing to look into the tiny and almost insignificant details it's not gonna happen! JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 this isnt getting any pikguards into the proper place!! :P Neither is Gibson QC according to the OP. haw haw! On the bright side, if the original claim is retracted soon, gentleman-Jim over in N'orn Irn will get the break he keeps asking for and he won't have to go about giving it "Na n'na na naaah na na Situation" all over the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Neither is Gibson QC according to the OP. haw haw! On the bright side, if the original claim is retracted soon, gentleman-Jim over in N'orn Irn will get the break he keeps asking for and he won't have to go about giving it "Na n'na na naaah na na Situation" all over the board. lol , he's in 'duh sowt of oirland' its me who's up here in norn irelnd ya ballix :) on a serious note ... i'm annoyed at my pickguard in the wrong place ... sort it out gibson!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 lol , he's in 'duh sowt of oirland' its me who's up here in norn irelnd ya ballix :) on a serious note ... i'm annoyed at my pickguard in the wrong place ... sort it out gibson!! haha, oh well... Jackie Fullerton is a horses...... ;) Delboy, more craic and less crack matey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 This threads original claim/complaint was based upon what appears to be a 'used' guitar, already sold, at a reputable dealer. We don't know that the current pickguard placement was done in the factory. If the person who purchased this guitar doesn't like it now, because of the placement, he has himself to blame, not the seller nor the maker. However, he might feel he has discovered a cause and wants to become active in correcting what he perceives as a problem. I think if he were to complain to Gibson regarding the 'quality' of the product being produced and not receive an apology or explanation from the company, he might conclude that they didn't agree the placement was done by them. If, on the other hand, they did produce that guitar with that placement and did not change either their specs or QC, then he might conclude they don't agree with his opinion. Since it is not his company, he should either start his own and compete with them, or pick up his marbles and go home. Life is tough.... as John Wayne liked to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainpicker Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 The last thread I bothered to read on this topic someone pointed out that fifty years or so from now, in order to be period correct with the guitars of these times, the pickguards will have to be "incorrectly" positioned relative to the rosette rings. So to have a Gibson with a "correctly" placed pickguard will be an immediate indication of a modified and incorrectly placed pickguard and will reduce the value of said guitar because it will not be original. I thought that kind of logic was just perfect! The dogs bark, the caravan moves on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The dman Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I never think about it until these topics come up :) I do find it hard to believe that they put the pickguards in the wrong place..... because they're bad aims? But otoh the placement does sometimes look odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trvlr Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 did somebody say pickguard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I doubt very much anyone would argue it was down to 'bad aim' or lack of care, given the 'standard' look is perceived as "wrong" almost uniformly. It's quite clear it's a choice. However, it's not always historically correct as has been noticed and commented on at great length several times... Given the frequency of this topics appearance, anyone from Gibson reading these might safely assume there's quite a lot of customers not best impressed by the current production placement, the flip side of the coin being, it doesn't seem to be hindering sales of what is produced, so you're left with a few choices... 1 - They place them this way to have the guard closer to the soundhole lip on the bottom for extra protection and to hell with historically accurate aesthetics 2 - They place them this way because that's what the production manager says, his word is law and the don;t care to argue it 3 - They place them this way because the majority simply don't care. 4 - They place them this way because the templates are wrong and the guards when cut even if moved don't fit the curvature of the rosette too well and recasting new moulds to correct it is seen as an unnecessary cost and would open them up to retrofit claims / criticisms, therefore any 'fix' would be done so on the quiet to avoid any backlash from critics of the current method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I doubt very much anyone would argue it was down to 'bad aim' or lack of care, given the 'standard' look is perceived as "wrong" almost uniformly. It's quite clear it's a choice. Im in serious worry about your mental health today PM...it must be a bad day on the voodoo world of finance and targets are not being met..or something ....heheheh You are making less sense than i have ever known though ? phuff On a serious note Your quote above.... is exactly what some members are arguing here...and have done since the debacle began.. if you look back on my first post in this thread ..i was jes sayin..I don't beleive it is down to laziness bad workman ship or as JC seems to think the lack of love for Gibson by the GM... ???? it is what it is... and it's a conscious choice..as Jeremy Morton ..has attested to. Your theory of wrong mold and guards not fitting the rossette correctly..is interesting..maybe.. but why have they made new guards ? maybe they placed an order for a few thousand....and they were not quite right ???.. but what ya gonna do.. well we could place them like this !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Im in serious worry about your mental health today PM...it must be a bad day on the voodoo world of finance and targets are not being met..or something ....heheheh Oh dear, Del, I'm not quite sure you understood my point, either that or taking your best shot with that quoted part has taken you to a new level of pathetic. He shoots, he misses... I'm almost feeling sorry for you after that one, Del.... almost.. I did blush for you though. Lets take something positive from it though, when you fall like this in public it teaches you to pick yourself back up again. So pick yourself up and try again. You can do it, I have faith in you. but why have they made new guards ? maybe they placed an order for a few thousand....and they were not quite right ???.. but what ya gonna do.. well we could place them like this !!!! Down to the shouty large text already? You lose your calm very easily, Del, don't you? Does larger bold type give you the sense of exercising your rage? I think you need to start with the herbal teas or something Del, perhaps you should get a mantra seeing as you're into all that mystic stuff. I'm guessing you were one of the last picks when they did school debating teams weren't you? Finance is fine today, Del, thanks for caring though, I'm ever so glad you've got our back. Have a top day mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Gibson could place a pickguard close to the edge but make it concentric to the circles. And that is EXACTLY the point I've made in the past. The Hummingbird guard the Del chose to use as an example was designed for that particular placement closer to the soundhole, as are those on the J-185 and J-200 guitars for example. Not so with the teardrop guards, which is why I always point them out specifically. Like I said, a total lack of craftsmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 And that is EXACTLY the point I've made in the past. The Hummingbird guard the Del chose to use as an example was designed for that particular placement closer to the soundhole, as are those on the J-185 and J-200 guitars for example. Not so with the teardrop guards, which is why I always point them out specifically. Like I said, a total lack of craftsmanship. fair point Guth but i don't think it's down to craftsmanship..or as I am seeing how the term is used here it can't be that the folk at Bozeman..can not place a pick guard correctly.. Can it ? My bold type in last post was a serious question / theory I had just thought of..and was not shouting at PM..as he wanted me to :P I don't tknow if Gibson produce their own tear drop guards..? I'd imagine they would order them in..that would be a more cost effective set up ..no ? Maybe as i theorized..they made an order of a batch of tear drop guards..and they are not quite the eaxct shape to fit the rossette..as some have stated when re-placing the guards in the ' correct' position and having to sand them a little to make them fit the rosette. Maybe they could not return the batch..get out of the deal ..or something..and are left with a few thousand guards that would all need sanding to put in the correct position.. ect ect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 A rather pointless debate. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's really as simple as that. Not pointless enough to resist a response though. . B) Members certainly have the right to express their dissatisfaction with anything concerning Gibson guitars. Another vote for - the placement looks ridiculous. It's as if someone with absolutely no aesthetic sense was making the decision to place the guards so incongruently as to purposely upset the harmonious sensibilities of most customers. Oh wait, I've located a pic of the culprit - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Here is a pic showing my 1956 SJ and 1960 J200. The original pickguards on both come right up to the soundhole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 If Gibson cared enough to get this right, they would. That's what I mean by lack of craftsmanship, taking the time to get it right instead of bodging it and putting the product out there regardless. I've seen photos of L-00 variations posted where they went ahead and properly re-designed the guard for placement closer to the soundhole so that the arc of the guard was concentric with the arc of the soundhole of the guitar. I didn't like it as much, but at least they made the effort to properly accomodate the new positioning of the guard. Placement of the teardrop guard is more difficult because the area of the guard to be placed next to the rosette is of a varying radius design as it leads towards the bottom of the guard. It is much easier to place it inside of the rosette because if you fudge it a little bit, it won't be noticed, the rosette is covered up any way. Placement of the L-00/AJ style guard is much easier because the inner arc of the guard is of a single radius. All one has to do is to line up the two inner "tips" of the arc with the outside ring of the small rosette and it will lay right down next to the rosette perfectly. If someone cared enough, they would either redesign the shape of the teardrop guard so that the primary arc of the design would lay concentrically next to the arc of the soundhole, or next to the arc of the inside of the rosette all the way to the upper point of the guard — doesn't matter as long as it is concentric. Or, they would build some simple little jigs/templates that would allow the people tasked with putting the current guards on to easily get it right, just like they did for decades previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 zombywoof, your photo further illustrates my point. The guards on those guitars are clearly designed for placement right next to the soundhole. The arc of the guard is concentric with that of the soundhole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljohnr Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Perhaps the reason is that there is no specification for guard placement? I still believe it's for wood protection. That answer makes the most sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 A vote here for showing at least one or more full rings of the rosette. I simply find it much more visually appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livemusic Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share Posted March 4, 2013 A rather pointless debate. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's really as simple as that. I beg to differ. Any company on the planet constantly seeks customer feedback. And they are getting it on their own website. I like Gibsons, I hate sloppy work. The vast majority of production pickguards are aligned to be concentric. And I don't know that I've ever seen a boutique maker create a guitar with an out-of-alignment pickguard. Maybe it exists, but I haven't seen it. EDIT: BigKahune... FUNNY pic and comment! I'm gonna 'fix' my J-45 but I shouldn't have to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 fair point Guth but i don't think it's down to craftsmanship..or as I am seeing how the term is used here it can't be that the folk at Bozeman..can not place a pick guard correctly.. Can it ? My bold type in last post was a serious question / theory I had just thought of..and was not shouting at PM..as he wanted me to :P I don't tknow if Gibson produce their own tear drop guards..? I'd imagine they would order them in..that would be a more cost effective set up ..no ? Maybe as i theorized..they made an order of a batch of tear drop guards..and they are not quite the eaxct shape to fit the rossette..as some have stated when re-placing the guards in the ' correct' position and having to sand them a little to make them fit the rosette. Maybe they could not return the batch..get out of the deal ..or something..and are left with a few thousand guards that would all need sanding to put in the correct position.. ect ect That's a lot of maybe's affecting many many many thousands of guitars over many years of Bozeman production. Are you really suggesting they ordered enough guards to last from the very end of the 1980's up until now, all in the wrong soundhole measurements? You don't find that quite a ridiculous suggestion on reflection? we're now talking more than 2 decades, Delboy..... You're not having a great day on here at all mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustystrings Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 FWIW, I think the current pickguard placement is most inelegant. You combine that with the over-long fingerboard (or too-high soundhole) and half of the rosette on a J-45 is covered up. Compare it with vintage Gibsons, even those with 20 frets, and the old ones look right and the current ones don't. I moved the 'guard on mine and reapplied it with whatever the appropriate double-sided stuff is and my wife's immediate reaction was, "That looks SOOOO much better!" Actually being able to see the rosette is a good thing. If Gibson wanted to be really clever, they'd move the guards to their traditional position and put a smaller, clear guard in place to cover things from the inside edge to the soundhole edge. Discreet, aesthetically pleasing, easy to remove or replace, and they could even describe it as an innovation to make lots of different customers happy. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 . ^ . . . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 That's a lot of maybe's affecting many many many thousands of guitars over many years of Bozeman production. Are you really suggesting they ordered enough guards to last from the very end of the 1980's up until now, all in the wrong soundhole measurements? You don't find that quite a ridiculous suggestion on reflection? we're now talking more than 2 decades, Delboy..... You're not having a great day on here at all mate. I thought this pg placement was a fairly recent development ? Like over the last few years? Well shows how much I know..it was just a theory that sprung to mind from your theory of wrong molds..ect ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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