Open Letter to Musicians from a Bar Owner

[ShredAstaire]

This has generated some good discussion on another forum...thought I would see what you guys are thinking about it...check it out.

 

The letter I have copied below was posted on Tampa Craigslist by a bar owner, but it was flagged for removal before I could provide a link or credit the author. But I managed to copy the content. So here it is, and I agree with a lot (although not all) of what he has to say. If more musicians clued into this perspective, the club scene would be much better:

 

A bar, that is, an establishment that earns its revenue primarily from selling alcoholic beverages, measures its success by the ounce and the accounting is done everyday because we mostly live on the edge. So we spend our time trying to figure out how to sell more ounces. It’s not just how many people are in the house or how great the atmosphere is (that’s certainly important), but how many drinks, preferably premium, we sell in a day. That’s it.

 

Live music is important to most of us (if we have that kind of venue). But it is a significant expense and is only worthwhile if it produces more than it consumes, just like advertising and anything else we spend money on in order to sell more ounces. But so many of the bands that come through here have no clue what their job is. Your job is to sell booze. You’re not here for any other reason.

 

There are some truly awful bands that actually chase customers away. But there are also some bands I would call mediocre who do a fantastic job of selling my product. There are also some really good bands who rock the house but not the cash drawer. While I appreciate good music and would never have an interest listening to that mediocre band’s lame CD, they’re coming back next week.

 

Here’s why:

 

1. They play simple music people recognize. People don’t dance to brilliant guitar solos or heady changes, they dance to the hook lyrics of a simple chorus. (If you’ve ever wondered why pop is popular, that’s why). When the ladies want to dance, the guys show up and everybody drinks. Simple truth.

 

2. They don’t ask me for drinks, they ask my customers. This is a subtle art and if it’s done well, the band can more than pay for itself. Here’s a few obvious techniques: If someone offers to buy the band a round, you order shots of top-shelf. Even if you don’t drink it, ask for it anyway. If someone asks for a request, try to make a deal with them. If you buy (your date, your table, the band) a round, we’ll play your song. Some bands beg for tips, and that’s fine, but it’s not what I’m paying you for. (Try to play request anyway. At least you wont chase them off.) We had one front man hold up a mixed drink and make a wonderfully cheesy but impassioned pitch that you simply had to try this because it was, as he put it, “a glass of pure happiness”. It resulted in over a hundred bucks in the drawer in just a few minutes. Those guys are busy.

 

3. They may not be the best band in town but they look and act professional. I cringe when I see a supposedly professional band wearing frayed khaki shorts, flip flops, mildly offensive t-shirts and greasy baseball caps (the standard bro uniform). I don’t care if you’re bald, a baseball cap is unacceptable. Live music is a visual form of entertainment. If you dress well, even if it’s hipster, funky, weird or flamboyant, as long as you look like you care about your appearance, and show a little self respect, you’ll go over better with my customers. The good bands also respect their gig and the customers. They show up on time, they don’t make a racket while they setup (hint: keep your drummer quiet especially when the jukebox is on.), they choose their set list carefully, they pace their sets well and stay engaged with the audience (don’t stop playing if the dance floor is full), they don’t get hammered and and they don’t leave a mess. All this adds up to what we call retention. Customers don’t leave. You would be surprised how many customers leave because of the band. And it’s usually not because the band is awful, but because it’s too loud, it’s the wrong repertoire, it’s rude and dismissive, it’s not engaged and basically no fun for anyone else but themselves. And here’s a little tip: Your continued employment is directly dependent on my bartender’s opinion of you. That’s probably true for every single bar you play.

 

One last thing. It’s hard to find work. You might be surprised at how much competition you have. I get emails, voicemails, regular mail, fed-ex packages left for me, all with earnestly concocted press kits and demos and I ignore almost all of it. I get walk-ins who, if I’m there, I’ll give a few minutes to. Again, you’d be surprised how many show up in their bro-clothes, tell me how awesome they are, and hand me a business card with a URL to their reverb nation page or YouTube channel.

 

They probably go home and wonder why they don’t get a call, but I’m not going to visit your website or listen to your demo. You’ve got maybe 60 seconds to make your “elevator pitch” and just a few more minutes to make it stick. There is a sales technique I’m seeing that’s impressive, stands out and really works, but out of respect for the bands that figured it out, call it a trade secret.

 

Bottom line: A bar is a business. My bar is my business, my life, my success or failure. What I do in my business is entirely up to me because the risk is entirely mine. If I have a jam night, an open mic, solos, duos, bands, karaoke, or just a jukebox, that’s up to me and no one else. Whatever helps make the most revenue. I have great respect for working musicians and would rather not hire them at all than to short-change them.

 

The open mic and jams that seem to get so much criticism here are not about me getting free entertainment, they are about bringing in paying customers and keeping them here. People who play and sing, but not in a professional band, like to get out, get a little stage time, have some fun, bring their friends and I offer them the place to do it. And yes, these nights are pretty good for the bottom line. If having bands was better, I’d have bands every night. It’s just reality, man

 

http://chrisledrew.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/open-letter-from-a-bar-owner-to-musicians/

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Clever, articulate chap.

[pippy]

Very interesting reading.

 

I know there will certainly be those who don't see eye-to-eye with him on this subject but laid out as clearly as that it makes perfect sense.

 

P.

[T Bone]

He's 100% correct, but also highlights why my favorite club back home is my favorite club. As the owner there says, it is not a restaurant with entertainment, not a bar with entertainment, but a music hall that happens to serve food and drink. The drink service is not the best, but adequate. The food, same again, (just) adequate. He doesn't care.

 

He has few employees, is open only on show nights, and does his business primarily off the door. He gets some of the Nations best touring Blues acts, and occasionally does a 'Stones or 'Zepplin tribute night (or others). There are rare times when they're not open for two weeks, but more often are open 2-3 nights per week. And I am a loyal Customer (when I am in town, been down here in South Florida now for 4 months, and here and Pennsylvania for 2 months before that). Looking forward to finally getting back to Callaghans when I get back home in a few weeks!

 

BTW, if his (the open letter in the OP) secret is "pay to play", not so sure I agree with it, but if it works for some bands, good for them. So long as they don't short change themselves and end up helping him while hurting themselves.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Play outside and draw the customers out. You'll be in doors before you know it. Risky in some municipalities depending on how illegal it is.

[daveinspain]

Can't argue with that...

[milod]

For what it's worth, I ain't gonna pay to play. Ever. That excludes, of course, doing the occasional benefit for something I'd give money to anyway, and was asked to play but not to pay first.

 

OTOH, I think there's no question that the guy pretty well has it nailed. It ain't a matter of great guitar work, it's whether a band fits the venue and holds a crowd to buy the booze.

 

If we play a repertoire that's looking for play and pay from saloons, we're entertainers, not just guitar players. The guitar is a tool to provide that entertainment. Different saloons will have different needs. But a bit of classical and elevator music might be great for one venue and horrid in another, just as whatever current rock style is popular for a segment of 20-somethings may be great for one and horrid in another venue.

 

I'll admit that's a hard lesson and not one folks might care to hear. But let's face it, if a karaoke night draws more folks to a saloon than a band... what decision do you figure the saloon owner is gonna make? He inevitably donates to various charities as it is, so why donate to a band?

 

m

[ShredAstaire]

He inevitably donates to various charities as it is, so why donate to a band?

 

 

Inevitably? Milod, you are putting great faith in the hundreds of thousands of dirtbag club owners across North America...

[marvar]

There is a couple of peeves I have against some bar owners- at least some in this area-

They want you to play for next to nothing, (overall, we made as much or more per night in the 80s than we do now, at standard going rates) yet, fill their bar with your crowd, (which is to be somewhat expected, if you have any following at all). But, the attitude of some of these guys is- "I'm doing you a favor by letting you play here", then they are expecting the bands to bring in and build a client base for them.

The old adage hold true- you get what you pay for-

IMO it's the bands job to entertain the people that are there. The band doesn't have a liquor license to sell drinks.

Of course, you want to push the audience to drink more, that is a part of your job, and if you have a reputation, that should help draw customers in, but, It's the owners part to get regular customers in the building, and provide advertising. The bands job is to keep them there.

If the owner books bands that suck and drives customers away, that's his fault- If he books quality acts consistantly, then he will have regular client base. The people will be expecting it-once again "you get what you pay for" holds true.

Then, there is the old pay to play scheme. "Well, you'll make money if you sell all your advance tickets or X amount of tickets" b.s.

[milod]

"Inevitably? Milod, you are putting great faith in the hundreds of thousands of dirtbag club owners across North America..."

 

Okay... Fine. But you might also be surprised at how many of those "dirtbag club owners" keep the local kid soccer team in uniforms, etc., etc., etc.

 

I used to tease my Dad that he sold his small town car and Harley business to become a clergyman to atone for his sins. That made him a little angry - and he noted that one doesn't stay in business 25 years without integrity and taking care of customers.

 

I've also noticed that even in joints where it was dangerous to walk in the door even as a band member, the clientele felt the owner was, by their own lights, taking care of them.

 

I'm sure there are dirtbags in every sense who manage to keep a business operating. Dunno about you, but I don't do business with folks of that sort more than once.

 

m

[ShredAstaire]

I suppose small town bar owners may be quite different from big city bar owners...competition is fierce and they don't give anything to anyone.

 

In terms of the article, the guy makes SOME fair points. Young bands can learn alot about performing and dressing for it, treating it like a business (sales) etc, but for this guy to expect professionalism and then demand that bands shill for drinks is ridiculous. The band is there to entertain....the bartender and waitstaff is there to generate drink orders.

[L5Larry]

Good discussion, and many valid points.

 

There's one piece of simple advise that I like to pass along to anyone who asks (and many that don't).

 

When you are practicing or rehearsing, you area MUSICIAN. The moment you walk through the door at a hired engagement, you are an ENTERTAINER.

[milod]

Larry nailed it in terms of roles.

 

As for big town vs. small town venues, I'll wager that there are plenty of charitable donations from most who've been in business very long - if for no other reason than tax incentives.

 

Also, to go along with Larry's point, part of entertaining in a saloon vs. even a coffeehouse is that the atmosphere is encouraging relaxing and enjoying drinks, friends, chasing the opposite sex, and ... enjoying drinks. That's far different from a concert at Carnegie Hall.

 

There's a significant difference between being a shill and recognizing where you are...

 

One might note that perhaps blues variations and country variations - even pop variations from the swing and immediate post-swing era - might be very well suited to a lotta saloons 'cuz even the music tends to have booze involved in lyrics. I dunno, but it does seem that way in comparison to some sub-genres.

 

m

[stein]

When you are practicing or rehearsing, you area MUSICIAN. The moment you walk through the door at a hired engagement, you are an ENTERTAINER.

Well put, sir.

[badbluesplayer]

 

When you are practicing or rehearsing, you area MUSICIAN. The moment you walk through the door at a hired engagement, you are an ENTERTAINER.

I'll try to remember that.

[stein]

This is a great thread and discussion. And thanks for posting it.

 

I find it hard to fault the author of this letter. Just about every word is free advice, and good advice. It's written for the benifit of those who would want to read it and understand it.

 

We can only wonder whats behind it, but still makes me wonder. I'm thinking what compelled him is a responce he may have got by replacing or not re-hiring a band. Maybe a band bugged the hell out of him to play, drew a sizeable crowd, and they all drank water? I've actually seen that.

 

Of corse, I'm dying to know the "trade secret", even though I think I know what it is. My guess is that it has to do with ackowledging the business aspects of it, perhaps selling drinks, or an offer to "try" them out and pay based on success, and an offer that they want to play regular. I don't think it's a "play for free" kind of deal, as the author of the letter states toward the end he would rather not hire than short-change.

 

Perhaps it has something to do with asking the ownwer questions, like "what kind of mudic do you usually have", or "what are your customers like". While owners are unlikely to tell you what they pull in on the tab, showing interest or asking them if the venue could support a band of X amount per night is a valed question that shows you know what you are talking about. One thing bar owners LOVE to hear is when the band treats it like a "partership" where there is a continued interest in what the bar makes and what they make and how to keep the gig going.

[Kaiser Bill]

I've known since 1967 (while playing 'Vegas) that myself and my band were nothing more than liquor salesmen. End of my "shift" the cash registers were zeroed out and the next band came on. At the end of the contract the band with the most revenue got to come back. Plain simple hardcore business. All I've ever asked for is a chance to prove myself to club owners...but play for free night after night?? Nope. Yes I still play benefits for friends with serious problems and every other week for the local food bank jam. That is my gift to the community for many years of making a good living in this town. Its also a good way to network. You also learn who in town knows how play and who can't. This has come in handy when the phone rings. I can either be "busy" or available depending on who is calling.

[LPguitarman]

My sons' had their second gig this past Saturday. It was $5. a head to get in. The person collecting the money asked each patron which band they were here to see. (there was three bands). Long story short, they only got $20. total. Granted, there weren't a lot of people in the place, but the people that were there were drinking. So the bar basically got free entertainment and didn't even pay the bands. It sucked... Not to mention the 2nd band took 3 encores and stole about 20 minutes from my sons' headlining band, but that's another story...I digress...

[ShredAstaire]

Here is a retort by a musician....

 

Dear Guy Who Owns a Bar in Tampa and wrote this letter to musicians on Craigslist,

 

I've been playing music for over 25 years. I've worked in a lot of different places from absolute ratholes to really wonderful venues. I've seen all sorts of bad behavior on the part of musicians, fans, sound guys, bartenders, bouncers, managers and, yes, even bar owners.

 

Contrary to what you may believe, I do actually get that you are in business. I understand that you are eking out a living running a bar. I know that your job and the jobs of your bartenders are to sell drinks. I'm pretty sure all musicians know that.

 

But since you decided to give musicians advice on how to improve themselves, I have a few suggestions for you as well.

 

 

Upgrade your crappy sound and light gear... or buy some if you don't have any.

Nothing is more irritating than showing up at a bar and our "stage" is a corner where we have to move tables and set up underneath a flatscreen TV that stays on during the entire set. No sound gear. No lights. Good luck. Ought to be loads of fun putting on a show and "entertaining" people while selling your drinks in a dark *** corner with no way to control the sound whatsoever.

 

Don't expect me to be some ham-handed used car salesman up there to push your watered-down "premium" drinks.

I will gladly tell people to get their drink on, but I'm not running an infomercial. Demanding that I stand onstage like David Lee Roth circa 1980 crowing about the magical properties of whatever high-dollar cocktail you have to offer is only going to make me less inclined to do it. You paid me to entertain people, not sell your booze. I know you think it's the same thing. It isn't.

 

 

Acknowledge that the reason those people are in the bar in the first place is probably to see me play AND drink your booze.

This is a symbiotic relationship we have here. We need your venue. Without it, we'd be street buskers. You need our music. You acknowledge it helps you make more money. But those people that file in and stay do so because WE are entertaining them.

 

Your drinks are] a means of improving their enjoyment, but that isn't what brought them in the door and keeps them there. If it is, you don't need to hire a band, but since you do, even you can recognize the value. So, don't start off from the position of pretending you are doing me some gracious favor by allowing me to set up and play for YOUR patrons.

 

If my band sucks, don't hire us, but don't pretend to be an expert on music.

I once had a guy come up to me in between sets at a happy-hour acoustic gig and tell me that we should really play "Margaritaville" because it's "peppy." You stick to drink specials and promoting your business and let me stick to doing what I do best.

 

If you think I suck, you are free to never hire me again (or not hire me in the first place), but as John Winger told Sgt. Hulka in Stripes, "If you don't want me in your army, kick me out, but get off my back."

 

 

If you want nothing but covers, hire cover bands.

Few things are more frustrating than a bar owner who hires you with full knowledge that you are an original (or mostly original) band and then complains that you aren't cranking out "Mustang Sally." Do your homework beforehand and don't blame me if you wanted a live jukebox and got us instead.

 

But keep in mind that good cover bands will want real money, not the paltry wads of cash you shove in my face at the end of the night (more on that in a minute). I'm fine with bars only wanting cover bands (though plenty of good original bands can keep the dance floor packed and the patrons drinking), but don't start demanding more covers from me if you knew going in I was bringing original material. Refer to my last point for more information.

 

 

If you don't want it loud, don't hire a rock band.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why people hire rock bands and then freak out when the guitars start roaring and drums start pounding. There can be excess, to be sure, but the average rock band is simply going to be loud. If they aren't, it's probably not a rock band.

 

All musicians understand the need to moderate the sound level in the room -- some better than others -- and most will oblige if you ask nicely, but if you come to us *****ing about the noise after we've already turned down once at your urging, you probably just shouldn't have us back... or any other rock band for that matter.

 

Pay me better.

Let's get to the crux of it, shall we? When I started playing in the '80s as a teen, the going rate for a gig was $50-$150 per band member depending on the size of the gig, the venue, the patrons, etc. Care to take a guess at what it is today?

 

If you guess $50-$150 per band member, you would understand my pain. That was 30 years ago, and the pay has not changed. You expect miracles for pocket change. Don't be surprised when you get exactly what you pay for.

 

Failing better pay, don't try to stiff me at 3 a.m.

Years ago, I was doing a gig with a popular local band who absolutely packed the venue we were in. The deal was we either got paid $500 or 80 percent of the door, whichever was more. We easily brought in 200 people at $10 per person, which by my math is more than $500.

 

Yet, when our singer went to collect the money, the bar owner tried to tell us we didn't make more than $500 at the door. After a few verbal threats were exchanged and the cash register was yanked off the bar, the bar owner wisely paid us our money. Be smart and, more importantly, don't be a crook.

 

 

Bottom Line

Doing what we do is as much hard work as what you do. Some of us even do it for a living. We do everything we can to have a good time, make money for ourselves and the bar all while trying not to get stiffed on pay or get punched by some drunk asshole who thought we looked at his girlfriend funny.

 

This is in addition to the countless hours we spend rehearsing the same songs over and over just so people will be entertained and we will sound good. So, don't be a dismissive schmuck. Try to have some appreciation for the difficult job we have too, and maybe then you'll get our best effort and our respect.

 

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/2013/01/open_letter_to_the_bar_owner_w.php

[stein]

The main reason I don't play out is because bar audiences rarely pay any attention to the act, which makes them kind of superfluous. If an act can actually engage the audience, it's a whole different story for both parties, but if the band is up there for their own enjoyment, the audience is even more likely to phase out, especially if playing original stuff that the audience can't connect with. I've seen only a few bar acts that were good enough, engaging enough to actually capture a crowd, and probably "sold" more booze in the process.

 

I personally had some experiences when I was a youngun, where the acts preceding me were virtually ignored by the audience. Shortly after I started, they stopped talking to each other, turned to face me and we were all engaged. And trust me, I ain't that good. But I chose the right songs.

Brings up a good question:

 

If a band CAN'T get a bar audience to "connect" or pay attention with origonal materiel, how far can they expect to go with it?

[zigzag]

I'm thinking a lot depends on the venue. If the venue is a restaurant, there is a good chance that the entertainment is there to enhance the experience and bring a few that might not have come otherwise. If the venue is a bar that features entertainment, the band is likely the attraction and the hook.

[kidblast]

Wellllllllllllllllllllllllll this has been interesting.

 

I side with the last post to the CL post (the rebuttal if you will)

 

most of us, who have been at since we were kids, and are now to old to remember what we had for breakfast - get the club owners point of view. we'd be stupid not to.

 

what many people don't get -- well just read the last response, and that pretty much sums it up IME...

[RowdyMoon]

Unless your the sex pistols or the Monkees in wich case none of the above applies...

[stein]

Here is a retort by a musician....

 

Dear Guy Who Owns a Bar in Tampa and wrote this letter to musicians on Craigslist,

 

I've been playing music for over 25 years. I've worked in a lot of different places from absolute ratholes to really wonderful venues. I've seen all sorts of bad behavior on the part of musicians, fans, sound guys, bartenders, bouncers, managers and, yes, even bar owners.

 

Contrary to what you may believe, I do actually get that you are in business. I understand that you are eking out a living running a bar. I know that your job and the jobs of your bartenders are to sell drinks. I'm pretty sure all musicians know that.

 

But since you decided to give musicians advice on how to improve themselves, I have a few suggestions for you as well.

 

 

Upgrade your crappy sound and light gear... or buy some if you don't have any.

Nothing is more irritating than showing up at a bar and our "stage" is a corner where we have to move tables and set up underneath a flatscreen TV that stays on during the entire set. No sound gear. No lights. Good luck. Ought to be loads of fun putting on a show and "entertaining" people while selling your drinks in a dark *** corner with no way to control the sound whatsoever.

 

Don't expect me to be some ham-handed used car salesman up there to push your watered-down "premium" drinks.

I will gladly tell people to get their drink on, but I'm not running an infomercial. Demanding that I stand onstage like David Lee Roth circa 1980 crowing about the magical properties of whatever high-dollar cocktail you have to offer is only going to make me less inclined to do it. You paid me to entertain people, not sell your booze. I know you think it's the same thing. It isn't.

 

 

Acknowledge that the reason those people are in the bar in the first place is probably to see me play AND drink your booze.

This is a symbiotic relationship we have here. We need your venue. Without it, we'd be street buskers. You need our music. You acknowledge it helps you make more money. But those people that file in and stay do so because WE are entertaining them.

 

Your drinks are] a means of improving their enjoyment, but that isn't what brought them in the door and keeps them there. If it is, you don't need to hire a band, but since you do, even you can recognize the value. So, don't start off from the position of pretending you are doing me some gracious favor by allowing me to set up and play for YOUR patrons.

 

If my band sucks, don't hire us, but don't pretend to be an expert on music.

I once had a guy come up to me in between sets at a happy-hour acoustic gig and tell me that we should really play "Margaritaville" because it's "peppy." You stick to drink specials and promoting your business and let me stick to doing what I do best.

 

If you think I suck, you are free to never hire me again (or not hire me in the first place), but as John Winger told Sgt. Hulka in Stripes, "If you don't want me in your army, kick me out, but get off my back."

 

 

If you want nothing but covers, hire cover bands.

Few things are more frustrating than a bar owner who hires you with full knowledge that you are an original (or mostly original) band and then complains that you aren't cranking out "Mustang Sally." Do your homework beforehand and don't blame me if you wanted a live jukebox and got us instead.

 

But keep in mind that good cover bands will want real money, not the paltry wads of cash you shove in my face at the end of the night (more on that in a minute). I'm fine with bars only wanting cover bands (though plenty of good original bands can keep the dance floor packed and the patrons drinking), but don't start demanding more covers from me if you knew going in I was bringing original material. Refer to my last point for more information.

 

 

If you don't want it loud, don't hire a rock band.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why people hire rock bands and then freak out when the guitars start roaring and drums start pounding. There can be excess, to be sure, but the average rock band is simply going to be loud. If they aren't, it's probably not a rock band.

 

All musicians understand the need to moderate the sound level in the room -- some better than others -- and most will oblige if you ask nicely, but if you come to us *****ing about the noise after we've already turned down once at your urging, you probably just shouldn't have us back... or any other rock band for that matter.

 

Pay me better.

Let's get to the crux of it, shall we? When I started playing in the '80s as a teen, the going rate for a gig was $50-$150 per band member depending on the size of the gig, the venue, the patrons, etc. Care to take a guess at what it is today?

 

If you guess $50-$150 per band member, you would understand my pain. That was 30 years ago, and the pay has not changed. You expect miracles for pocket change. Don't be surprised when you get exactly what you pay for.

 

Failing better pay, don't try to stiff me at 3 a.m.

Years ago, I was doing a gig with a popular local band who absolutely packed the venue we were in. The deal was we either got paid $500 or 80 percent of the door, whichever was more. We easily brought in 200 people at $10 per person, which by my math is more than $500.

 

Yet, when our singer went to collect the money, the bar owner tried to tell us we didn't make more than $500 at the door. After a few verbal threats were exchanged and the cash register was yanked off the bar, the bar owner wisely paid us our money. Be smart and, more importantly, don't be a crook.

 

 

Bottom Line

Doing what we do is as much hard work as what you do. Some of us even do it for a living. We do everything we can to have a good time, make money for ourselves and the bar all while trying not to get stiffed on pay or get punched by some drunk asshole who thought we looked at his girlfriend funny.

 

This is in addition to the countless hours we spend rehearsing the same songs over and over just so people will be entertained and we will sound good. So, don't be a dismissive schmuck. Try to have some appreciation for the difficult job we have too, and maybe then you'll get our best effort and our respect.

 

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/2013/01/open_letter_to_the_bar_owner_w.php

bump for easier 2nd pages reading

[Guest Farnsbarns]

I think the guy is saying that some bands are better at pleasing the crowd and engaging with them in many ways, more drinks get sold as a result. He books those bands again. He's telling us how to do that as well and I think it's good advice. I think his views are possibly a little extreme, as are some of the reposts. I think reality lies somewhere in the middle.

 

Just reading all this though, the first post and all the points of view, makes it obvious things are different over there. In the UK a band in a venue with no cover charge is much less common. It does happen but generally, if someone is looking for live music, they travel to a venue that does live music, generally knowing who is playing, and they pay to get in. This means the average pub/bar and a music pub/bar are different business models with different patrons who have different expectations.

 

Music places like this are usually at capacity fairly early and operate a one-out-one-in policy from a fairly early hour and will have a queue for the rest of the night. I think the fact that we can be a bit of a nation of binge drinkers also makes a difference. A person in your bar is likely to have at least 5 pints of beer or equivalent, with ladies drinking almost as much as men on average so a person in the door is money. A bad band is really all that can go wrong in driving people out and they wont get booked again.

 

There are places putting on young bands for a young audience that are often free but by the nature of what they are offering the crowd tends to be very young as well and that means there is simply less money walking in the door.

 

More and more places are putting on open mic nights but that tends to be 90% muso's and 10% regulars who are so stuck in their ways they would probably walk in if the place was on fire. This also tends to be mid week in places that would otherwise have just the handful of regulars. Better to sell a few beers to open mic'ers than no one, even if they insist on making that infernal noise.