Tone

[Sgt.]

You don't have to live with crappy stock factory guitar tone ... clinical ... sterile ... dead tone!

 

What factors influence guitar tone? Many players become unhappy or unsatisfied with the tone of their guitar. Manufacturers of guitars ie. guitars with electronics, often cut corners in order to offer the product at a more attractive price to the consumer. Components such as tone caps and pots in electric guitars, tubes in amplifiers, and speakers in cabinets tend not to be quality on the cheap coming from the factory.

 

The tone capactitors in the electronics cavity are meant to hold an electrical charge and impact the high frequency cut off. There are different 'insides' or dialectrics to tone caps: ceramic, polypropolene plastic, mylar, polyester, paper in oil, paper in wax and others. The type of inside or dialectric of the tone cap makes some audible difference in the guitar's tone. The value of the cap also determines the cut off. A higher value will cut more highs. The sound you like is up to your ears to decide. Aftermarket upgrades on lower priced electric guitars can make a world of difference to the overall sound.

 

The tone of an electric guitar is influenced by more than the quality and type of electronics onboard the guitar. Consider the output end of tone, the sound you hear from the speaker. New speakers are often an easy upgrade to perform with noticebable impact on guitar tone. Consider different types of magnets in speakers, such as alnico (aluminum, nickel, cobalt), ceramic (copper ferrite), or neodynium. Alnico magnets have softer characteristics often described as 'warm' sounding and compress well at lower volumes. Ceramic magnets are cheaper to make than alnico and can endure the high power of today's players, tending to be brighter and not as warm sounding. The cost difference for comparable ceramic and alnico speakers is due to the higher cost of cobalt. Interesting the old style alnico magnets became expensive to make and ceramic was substituted because cobalt was needed to make bombs during the war. Neodynium is a newer magnet material built to withstand high power applications ie. higher wattage. A note to mention on power of speakers: a high end speaker such as Celestion blue at 15watts can be more efficient (push more air) or louder than a higher wattage speaker of another brand that is less efficient.

 

Look at the specs. The Jensen website has good information about their speakers.

 

Also consider the tonal characteristics of the power tubes in your amplifier. Cheap Chinese tubes that often come stock in lower priced amplifiers are worth upgrading to aftermarket tubes. Note: be sure of the biasing requirements of the amplifier before considering changing tubes. Mostly a cathode biased class A amplifier will tolerate direct swops of power tubes of the same type. For example, the tonal charcteristics of the new production Genelex Gold Lion 6V6. The Genelex have a tight bottom end and balanced midrange. They are some of the pricier tube upgrades but the difference between the stock Chinese tubes and the Genelex are noticeable. There are also supplies of NOS (new old stock) tubes available, which some say are built better than any new production tube. The price difference between nos tubes and new prodution tubes is a bit. It is up to the consumer to place value on the more expensive nos tubes. Are they worth the money? You decide.

 

Furthermore, the gain characteristics of your tone can be altered by upgrading the preamp tubes. Amplifiers are generally more tolerant of preamp swops than power tube swops. Different types of preamp tubes can be mixed to alter the gain factor in your sound. For example, an amplifier that had two stock Chinese 12AX7 preamp tubes can be upgraded to two more expensive 12AX7's or even mixed with another type such as a 12AU7 that stays cleaner than the 12AX7 when the volume is increased. The most important preamp tube as far as changing the gain characteristics is in the V1 position or the preamp tube directly next to the power tubes.

 

Hey, tone doesn't have to come from expensive upgrades! It can be as simple as changing the type of strings you use. Try pure nickel strings for a warmer tone. Pure nickel also wears easier on your guitar's frets than steel. Steel strings are generally on the brighter side of tone and nickel wrapped steel are in between.

 

There are some simple upgrades that can greatly influence the guitar's tone: changing the tone capacitors on the guitar, upgrading power tubes in the amplifier, or upgrading the speaker in the cabinet. The thirst for better tone can be satisfied without going into total GAS (gear aquisition syndrome)! Make the best with what you have. Afterall it is the player that has the greatest influence on the tone the guitar.

[jdgm]

Afterall it is the player that has the greatest influence on the tone the guitar.

Yup, agree!

[daveinspain]

There are so many factors... here are a few off the top of my head from what I've learned from tinkering with my guitars and FX. Pick ups are important so know what your options are and the sound your going for. Your guitar set up is very important as well. If your truss rod and action aren't set right you can get a very dead sounding guitar. I remember when I bought my LP Classic, my first guitar, it sounded dead compared to other guitars I had bought later. Through trail and error I brought the guitar to life. It didn't resonate at all at first. The strings were too close to the fretboard. Yeah it had great action but sounded like doodoo... I played with the bridge hight and neck stress and relief (truss rod adjustments). Eventually I stumbled on the right combination of bridge hight and truss rod setting and the guitar came alive... Sounds great now. Your FX pedals help a lot when looking for tone as well. Being a sound engineering helped me a lot as far as knowing what tools I needed to go after the tone I was looking for i.e fat sustain, meaty distortion/overdrive or cristal chorus. Then there's the amplifier which is another major tone factor. The best advise I can think of, when looking for your tone, is tinker with everything. Trail and error. Start with your guitar though, make sure you are getting the best possible out of it unplugged.

[Sgt.]

There are so many factors... here are a few off the top of my head from what I've learned from tinkering with my guitars and FX. Pick ups are important so know what your options are and the sound your going for. Your guitar set up is very important as well. If your truss rod and action aren't set right you can get a very dead sounding guitar. I remember when I bought my LP Classic, my first guitar, it sounded dead compared to other guitars I had bought later. Through trail and error I brought the guitar to life. It didn't resonate at all at first. The strings were too close to the fretboard. Yeah it had great action but sounded like doodoo... I played with the bridge hight and neck stress and relief (truss rod adjustments). Eventually I stumbled on the right combination of bridge hight and truss rod setting and the guitar came alive... Sounds great now. Your FX pedals help a lot when looking for tone as well. Being a sound engineering helped me a lot as far as knowing what tools I needed to go after the tone I was looking for i.e fat sustain, meaty distortion/overdrive or cristal chorus. Then there's the amplifier which is another major tone factor. The best advise I can think of, when looking for your tone, is tinker with everything. Trail and error. Start with your guitar though, make sure you are getting the best possible out of it unplugged.

 

Ah yeah! pickups too!!! and a good setup!!! i like the last line "Start with your guitar though, make sure you are getting the best possible out of it unplugged." The clean sound of the amplifier will give you the best true indication tone wise. adding layers of effects will colour your tone.

Didn't mention solid state amps, guess speaker change is applicable but really outside of major overhauls there aren't many 'simple' upgrades you can do with solid state amps. guess effects pedals would be applicable in shaping tone.

 

this is my opinion, not expert on electrical but well researched because i want the best of my tone.

[pippy]

Taking it as a 'given' that the player's technique is by far the most important part of the equation...

 

The most essential aspect in getting the tone you like is spending the time to find the best-sounding guitar, when played acoustically, in the first place.

 

This applies equally to electric guitars; not just acoustics.

 

All the rest; strings, p'ups, pots, caps etc...will merely be used to shape this fudamental tone.

 

If further effects are introduced to modify the sound signal this fundamental tone will become less and less influential to the point where, of course, the original guitar's tone is negated completely.

 

IMHO.

 

P.

[btoth76]

Hello!

 

"The most fundamental aspect in getting the tone you like is spending the time to find the best-sounding guitar, when played acoustically, in the first place"

 

To confirm the truth of what Pippy said, let's ask Mr. Gary Moore about it:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCvgE6yzoAM (1:00-1:37).

 

Cheers... Bence

[pippy]

Boy, could he make those guitars sing!

 

Thanks for posting, Bence.

 

Interesting hearing him discuss the o-o-p sound at 4:50. Both tone at full.

 

I've played Flight's magnet-flipped G0 and it was, I believe, the same.

As soon as there is a difference in tone-knob settings the o-o-p sound disappears and the mid-position was in 'regular' two-p'up mode.

I can't remember if it's always o-o-p if the tone knobs are equal - say both at 4, or both at 6 etc. I'll have to ask!

 

I've always meant to do it to one of mine but never get around to it. Must Try Harder.

 

P.

[btoth76]

Hello Pippy!

 

I have this OOP option on my Tele and - of course - on "Brigitta". I like it so much.

 

I've a keyboardist colleague who's band was playing Deep Purple's "Sometimes I feel like screaming". The guitarist had hard times properly playing the main riff with the tap harmonics. I told Him to try playing the riff normally fretted in OOP mode. At upper frets the Tele in OOP mode makes out sounds almost like pinch harmonics.

 

...isn't it the volume knobs have be equal, otherwise the OOP sound goes away on a Les Paul? I have to check it too.

 

And, yes, if someone, then Mr. Moore could make a guitar sing...He is sadly missed, everyday.

 

Cheers... Bence

[pippy]

...isn't it the volume knobs have be equal, otherwise the OOP sound goes away on a Les Paul? I have to check it too...

Ah, you could well be right, Bence.

 

I'm (meant to be) working now but I'll send him a text when I get a minute!

 

And yes, Mr. Moore is sorely missed.

 

P.

[kidblast]

Afterall it is the player that has the greatest influence on the tone the guitar.

 

Taking it as a 'given' that the player's technique is by far the most important part of the equation...

 

This... by far, is the prime ingredient. take two guys, same rig, you'll get different results every time

 

That Said, Sgt brings up a lot of great factors that some times aren't really considered. It points out for sure that there are countless combinations of things that are just out of plain sight, but come together to complete the equation.

 

One thing that hasn't come up here, but has in other posts, is the cable. I don't buy the real high end cables, but comparing a few of the more sanely priced ones, yea, there is a difference, and I think that it's a factor that not everyone can always "hear".

 

Good post, great discussion..

 

edit: Gary Moore,, Agree... very much missed.

[badbluesplayer]

Not to mention that once you get your guitar all set up, you still have to learn to make THAT instrument with that particular setup make the sounds you want.

[pippy]

Not to mention that once you get your guitar all set up, you still have to learn to make THAT instrument with that particular setup make the sounds you want.

Very briefly on this point;

 

When I first got my old Strat & Music Man pairing together back in '80 I spent quite a few weeks just twiddling knobs and making copious notes (as it were) as to what sounds could be obtained with which settings.

I finally settled on one basic set of positions as far as the amp was concerned and by using the tone/vol/p'up selector on the guitar could get pretty much every 'normal' tone with the odd exception where I'd need to adjust the amp.

 

Fast forward to 2005 when I start the same process with the first LP I'd owned for nearly 30 years and I was surprised to find that the same basic amp settings were still applicable for the LP whenever 'Heavy' is required. I play a lot more mellow blues these days and a second combination of settings has been worked out but whenever I need that Blues Breakers/Gary Moore-type LP+overdriven amp sound it's exactly the same as it has been for 33 years.

The second profile, however, doesn't involve different tone settings but a different channel vol / master vol balance.

 

My guess as to why this should be so (and it is only a guess) is this;

In each case I had chosen a guitar which had the unplugged sound I liked. The amp seems to be simply doing what it is meant to be doing; amplifying this fundamental, inherent tone. Get it right for a Strat and it's still right for the LP. Even overdriven, to obtain the o/d sound I like from a Strat needs the same amp settings as to get my preferred o/d sound from a LP.

 

I'm certainly not going to say this will be a Universal Truth for all guitars; all amps; all people. But it's just how it turned out for me.

 

Picking up on what bbp mentions I most certainly DID have to learn how to use a LP properly as far as playing style goes. That was a fun process.

 

P.

[btoth76]

Even tough, - I can admit - I am not a very good player, still I can waste hours on playing with the settings until I find the sound satisfying. Sometimes the setting seemed to be great the day before seems to be wrong/harsh today. I am very sensitive for the quality of sound. Even the cables make a difference for me. Of course, - I agree - it's not the price that makes a cable great. I am quite satisfied with ZZYZXs I have, which aren't expensive, but had hard times with Klotz. They were noisy.

 

 

Cheers... Bence

[MissouriPicker]

Chet Atkins was usually pretty direct in what he had to say. Not a big fan of "political correctness." When people would tell him "Wow, Chet, that guitar sounds great," he'd sit the guitar on the ground and say "How does it sound now?".....Nice guitars are truly nice, but it's the player.

[btoth76]

Chet Atkins was usually pretty direct in what he had to say. Not a big fan of "political correctness." When people would tell him "Wow, Chet, that guitar sounds great," he'd sit the guitar on the ground and say "How does it sound now?".....Nice guitars are truly nice, but it's the player.

 

That was great!

[kidblast]

When people would tell him "Wow, Chet, that guitar sounds great," he'd sit the guitar on the ground and say "How does it sound now?".....Nice guitars are truly nice, but it's the player.

 

Fantastic!! Chet was brilliant in so many ways.

[krock]

Ive noticed that the tone of my tele has suffered since the frets have ground down so much, it really lacks sustain now. I need to get them dressed.

[ShredAstaire]

You don't have to live with crappy stock factory guitar tone ... clinical ... sterile ... dead tone!

 

What factors influence guitar tone? Many players become unhappy or unsatisfied with the tone of their guitar. Manufacturers of guitars ie. guitars with electronics, often cut corners in order to offer the product at a more attractive price to the consumer. Components such as tone caps and pots in electric guitars, tubes in amplifiers, and speakers in cabinets tend not to be quality on the cheap coming from the factory.

The tone capactitors in the electronics cavity are meant to hold an electrical charge and impact the high frequency cut off. There are different 'insides' or dialectrics to tone caps: ceramic, polypropolene plastic, mylar, polyester, paper in oil, paper in wax and others. The type of inside or dialectric of the tone cap makes some audible difference in the guitar's tone. The value of the cap also determines the cut off. A higher value will cut more highs. The sound you like is up to your ears to decide. Aftermarket upgrades on lower priced electric guitars can make a world of difference to the overall sound.

The tone of an electric guitar is influenced by more than the quality and type of electronics onboard the guitar. Consider the output end of tone, the sound you hear from the speaker. New speakers are often an easy upgrade to perform with noticebable impact on guitar tone. Consider different types of magnets in speakers, such as alnico (aluminum, nickel, cobalt), ceramic (copper ferrite), or neodynium. Alnico magnets have softer characteristics often described as 'warm' sounding and compress well at lower volumes. Ceramic magnets are cheaper to make than alnico and can endure the high power of today's players, tending to be brighter and not as warm sounding. The cost difference for comparable ceramic and alnico speakers is due to the higher cost of cobalt. Interesting the old style alnico magnets became expensive to make and ceramic was substituted because cobalt was needed to make bombs during the war. Neodynium is a newer magnet material built to withstand high power applications ie. higher wattage. A note to mention on power of speakers: a high end speaker such as Celestion blue at 15watts can be more efficient (push more air) or louder than a higher wattage speaker of another brand that is less efficient. Look at the specs.

Also consider the tonal characteristics of the power tubes in your amplifier. Cheap Chinese tubes that often come stock in lower priced amplifiers are worth upgrading to aftermarket tubes. Note: be sure of the biasing requirements of the amplifier before considering changing tubes. Mostly a cathode biased class A amplifier will tolerate direct swops of power tubes of the same type. For example, the tonal charcteristics of the new production Genelex Gold Lion 6V6. The Genelex have a tight bottom end and balanced midrange. They are some of the pricier tube upgrades but the difference between the stock Chinese tubes and the Genelex are noticeable. There are also supplies of NOS (new old stock) tubes available, which some say are built better than any new production tube. The price difference between nos tubes and new prodution tubes is a bit. It is up to the consumer to place value on the more expensive nos tubes. Are they worth the money? You decide.

Furthermore, the gain characteristics of your tone can be altered by upgrading the preamp tubes. Amplifiers are generally more tolerant of preamp swops than power tube swops. Different types of preamp tubes can be mixed to alter the gain factor in your sound. For example, an amplifier that had two stock Chinese 12AX7 preamp tubes can be upgraded to two more expensive 12AX7's or even mixed with another type such as a 12AU7 that stays cleaner than the 12AX7 when the volume is increased. The most important preamp tube as far as changing the gain characteristics is in the V1 position or the preamp tube directly next to the power tubes.

Hey, tone doesn't have to come from expensive upgrades! It can be as simple as changing the type of strings you use. Try pure nickel strings for a warmer tone. Pure nickel also wears easier on your guitar's frets than steel. Steel strings are generally on the brighter side of tone and nickel wrapped steel are in between.

There are some simple upgrades that can greatly influence the guitar's tone: changing the tone capacitors on the guitar, upgrading power tubes in the amplifier, or upgrading the speaker in the cabinet. The thirst for better tone can be satisfied without going into total GAS (gear aquisition syndrome)! Make the best with what you have. Afterall it is the player that has the greatest influence on the tone the guitar.

 

 

[milod]

First...

 

I have to agree with Shred...

 

A great post in terms of content. Not good, great.

 

But more folks would actually read it if it weren't so difficult to read in terms of physical effort with the eyes.

 

Second...

 

I think too many of us get gassed on equipment without wringing out what we have. That's whether we're playing a J45 with basic strumming because that's all we know, or a high-end, hand-made rock electric.

 

Segovia used to say the guitar is a little orchestra because of all the tones it can produce. And he was talking about an acoustic-only nylon string instrument.

 

I figure personally that technique makes far more difference than a lot of us give credit for. Then there are the huge possibilities of a two-pup guitar and the simplest amp. Add stomp boxes of various sorts and the potentials are infinite. But... I wonder how many will first wring out the guitar itself "basic clean," then begin to mess with amps and such... and then with effects?

 

I know that a single guitar with no change of pup, pot or amp settings can sound almost as if it were a different instrument by how I play... And don't get me wrong, I've nothing at all against electronic aids for certain specific sounds, whether fuzz, chorus, EQ or to emulate a Leslie... But it seems to me you should ought to first know what the guitar can do more or less on its own with a "clean" amp.

 

m

[Valeriy]

Hello, fellows.

 

The top, of course, is interesting. Although, I must admit that guitar pickups are imperfect now (IMHO).

That is why there are so many factors strongly influencing the sound of the guitar. And by the way, that is why Rabs was almost confused when was selecting a desired diagram for connecting pickups and coils :) . Indeed, there are too many of these ways to connect because of the fact that these various connect diagrams were as searches and attempts, I think, to correct some flaws of pups. But of course, these diagrams are fundamentally to solve nothing.

 

And I agree with Milod, if I understand correctly, that a guitar sound should be evaluated by means of the clean sound without effects. For example, once I made a preamp for my electric guitar, herewith, the new preamp was as a copy of a previous preamp that was the same. Suddenly, the new preamp sounded much worse than the previous, I was taken aback. Finally, I remembered that there were special paper capacitors (one of the paper cap versions, the type К42У-2 of Russia) into of the previous, and into the new I put other caps more usual and cheap. And I noticed the difference in sound thanks to the clean sound with no effects, otherwise, with any guitar effect, perhaps, it could be unknown. Now :) here, there, everywhere my preamps for guitar (in the input and output) have basically these paper or similar caps. And one comment, fellows, do not place such caps (as K42У-2 and similar) in other sound devices: preamps and amps for to listen to and recording music, it will be worse, i.e. these paper caps are good only for guitar devices, although for them these caps are just excellent.