Blues guitar method

[RaysEpiphone]

Ive searched Youtube for an explanation but I've not found it yet. I have been going to this cool Blues Jam near me for a while now sitting in with some very good player's. I've been playing drum's and I know all the main Blues drum pattern's as I've been playing drums for decades with Blues and Rock bands. The last two times I went I brought along my electric guitar as I have taken some time to learn a few of the song's (on guitar) these guy's have been playing over the past 6 months or so that I've been playing drums with them. Last week the only song I asked them to play with me on guitar was one that we had played there more than once before so they all knew it and I just picked up on the other 3 song's that the other guitar player wanted to do on my own.

 

This week I asked them to play one that the drummer knew but the bassist didn't, she asked me, "are you changing on the "5"? All I could say was I'm sorry but I don't really know what you meen so she just picked up on it after we started playing for a bit on her own. I'd heard them talking about this sort of thing before but I was on drums then and it didn't register to me as I knew where I needed to go on drums and I was the only drummer so I didn't need to communicate any thing to any one on how the song went. When I play I don't even count beats or anything, I just learn words, chords, riffs and fills. I do have a basic knowledge of written music but I'm not a conductor.

 

I know some one among this group knows what this is and has a Youtube video saved on there favorites list so if some one would please link some thing visual that may help me with this I be grateful.

[jaxson50]

Here you go bro

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_progression

[jaxson50]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=fvwrel&v=mnFDPTSgKHs

[saturn]

I think what she was asking was this:

 

Say you are playing a blues in E. Are you playing the first 4 bars on the E chord then changing to A on the 5th bar? Which is a very standard way to do a 12 bar blues. Some 12 bar blues progression get a little fancier and do something like 1 bar of E, one quick bar to A then back to E again for 2 bars before changing again to the A on the 5th bar. A good example of this would be "Statesboro Blues" by ABB, just played in D rather than E.

 

Edit: I thought about it some more and corrected my example of "quick four' that BBP mentions.

[badbluesplayer]

The way the number thing works in blues is like this: Each note has a number. The numbers represent how many notes up from the bottom of the major scale each note is. You can find more info elsewhere about the number thing.

 

For regular 12 bar blues - Say you're playing in the key of E. The "one chord" is what they call the root note, E. You play that chord for 4 bars, then you play the four chord, A, for two bars, then go back to the one chord, E for two bars.

 

Then, at bar 9 you play the five chord, B, for one bar, then the four chord, A, for one bar, then play the one chord for bars eleven and twelve.

 

For "quick four" blues, you do the same except you play the four chord (instead of the one chord) for bar two.

 

Regular 12 bar is like "Black Cat Bone". Quick four, like Saturn said, is like "Statesboro Blues"

[Guest Farnsbarns]

"Changing on the 5" is a regular expression in blues used to describe the insertion of the 4 chord in the second bar. Likely she was talking about the 5th beat, not the 5 chord.

 

Strangely, I've known plenty of peops use the expression even when the tune is 3/4 time, which makes no sense but there you go, ho hum and all that.

[LarryUK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozU9EmMRSYs

This channel on YouTube explains things well. Have a look at his video's.

If these things had been about 40 years ago I'd be a far better player.

[quapman]

Jaxon's links are what you need. And BBP pretty much sums it up.

But if you don't understand some basic theory you won't really know what they are talking about.

 

You have to understand what a I IV V is and how the notes of the major scale are numbered before you can understand chord progression.

This is the theory part that many people hate. But a perfect example of how it is so useful. Like when you want to sit in with

new musicians.

 

Lashursts video was kinda cool but not what Ray is talking about changing on the 5. In the video the numbers he is talking about

are fret numbers and nothing more. And he admittedly states the blues lick he is showing is "one of a billion".

 

If you watch the lick he is playing, all he is doing is going up the neck through the modes of the pentatonic scale.

I hate to start the whole theory debate but this is a perfect example of where it comes in handy.

[zigzag]

None of those explanations make any sense to me. Going from a I to a IV chord on the fifth beat or in the fifth bar is not a typical change in any blues structure.

[L5Larry]

Going from a I to a IV chord on the fifth beat or in the fifth bar is not a typical change in any blues structure.

 

There must be some miscommunication going on here, or something (misinterpreting roman numerals maybe).

 

Both forms, as you have stated above, are typical 12-bar Blues forms. Changing from the I (1) to the IV (4) chord on the fifth beat (the first beat of the second measure), for one measure, is called a "quick change". Not changing from I to IV (chord) until the fifth measure could be called a "standard" 12-bar blues.

[zigzag]

There must be some miscommunication going on here, or something (misinterpreting roman numerals maybe).

 

Both forms, as you have stated above, are typical 12-bar Blues forms. Changing from the I (1) to the IV (4) chord on the fifth beat (the first beat of the second measure), for one measure, is called a "quick change". Not changing from I to IV (chord) until the fifth measure could be called a "standard" 12-bar blues.

 

You're right, of course. My bad. However, I was not aware of the quick change as a standard move in a blues structure.

[stein]

There must be some miscommunication going on here, or something (misinterpreting roman numerals maybe).

 

Both forms, as you have stated above, are typical 12-bar Blues forms. Changing from the I (1) to the IV (4) chord on the fifth beat (the first beat of the second measure), for one measure, is called a "quick change". Not changing from I to IV (chord) until the fifth measure could be called a "standard" 12-bar blues.

We call it a 'quick change' around here too.

 

I think it's fascinating how in different regions, the terms are different.

 

But this is about the most direct and correct answer one is likely to get.

 

I think the REASON the question is often asked during directions to the band is that both ways are pretty common, and often players feel it needs to be specified.

 

I have to admit, I don't even know what is the SURE way to describe "no quick change" except to say, "no quick change", or "stay on the one".

 

Typically, if someone calls out "12 bar", I don't do a 'quick change' unless it is stated at the time. I think it's more correct. But it seems too often if it isn't specified, half the time others will do it anyway.

[Dennis G]

Typically, if someone calls out "12 bar", I don't do a 'quick change' unless it is stated at the time.

Same here. I always "assume" (and we know how dangerous that can be) that unless someone says "Blues in (pick a key) with a quick change" I'll stay on the I until the 5th bar.

 

And just to confuse things even further , how about the "Blues in (key) coming in the back door!"

[Guest Farnsbarns]

None of those explanations make any sense to me. Going from a I to a IV chord on the fifth beat or in the fifth bar is not a typical change in any blues structure.

 

sorry but yes, it really is, very typical indeed.

 

I-IV-I-I(b7)-IV-IV-I -I-V-IV-I-V

[zigzag]

Question... if a quick change is used, the IV isn't played but for just a couple of beats, correct?

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Same here. I always "assume" (and we know how dangerous that can be) that unless someone says "Blues in (pick a key) with a quick change" I'll stay on the I until the 5th bar.

 

And just to confuse things even further , how about the "Blues in (key) coming in the back door!"

 

A low V or playing the turnaround as an intro?

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Question... if a quick change is used, the IV isn't played but for just a couple of beats, correct?

 

Usually a whole bar but you can play it any way you like.

[quapman]

Question... if a quick change is used, the IV isn't played but for just a couple of beats, correct?

 

 

Not really,, See L5Larrys post.

 

quick change the 4(IV) is played in the second bar as opposed to the fifth bar.

 

 

The only place you see a couple of beats is at the beginning and end if pick up notes are used.

Otherwise, every bar has the same number of beats.

Excluding changing time signatures but I don't know too many blues tunes that change time sig in the middle.

[quapman]

 

 

And just to confuse things even further , how about the "Blues in (key) coming in the back door!"

 

 

Speaking of pick up notes?????

 

never heard that term but pick up note would seem most logical..

[stein]

Same here. I always "assume" (and we know how dangerous that can be) that unless someone says "Blues in (pick a key) with a quick change" I'll stay on the I until the 5th bar.

 

And just to confuse things even further , how about the "Blues in (key) coming in the back door!"

Is that "from the 5"?

 

Lol...never heard THAT one..I like it though.

[stein]

A low V or playing the turnaround as an intro?

"low IV"? Haven't heard that one either...if I did, I don't think I'd be able to have a clue.

 

"From the turnaround" I hear.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

"low IV"? Haven't heard that one either...if I did, I don't think I'd be able to have a clue.

 

"From the turnaround" I hear.

 

Sorry, by a low V I meant playing the V chord below (lower pitched than/in the octave below)the I chord, "from the turn around" you obviously understood. I was asking if this was what Dennis means by "coming in the back door" because I haven't heard that expression before. These aren't turns of phrase I've heard or anything.

[Dennis G]

Sorry, by a low V I meant playing the V chord below (lower pitched than/in the octave below)the I chord, "from the turn around" you obviously understood. I was asking if this was what Dennis means by "coming in the back door" because I haven't heard that expression before. These aren't turns of phrase I've heard or anything.

Methinks we're all describing the same thing. Funny how a common language can be so confusing LOL

Back Door.pdf

[L5Larry]

Methinks we're all describing the same thing. Funny how a common language can be so confusing LOL

 

Simply "from the five"!

[RaysEpiphone]

The way the number thing works in blues is like this: Each note has a number. The numbers represent how many notes up from the bottom of the major scale each note is. You can find more info elsewhere about the number thing.

 

For regular 12 bar blues - Say you're playing in the key of E. The "one chord" is what they call the root note, E. You play that chord for 4 bars, then you play the four chord, A, for two bars, then go back to the one chord, E for two bars.

 

Then, at bar 9 you play the five chord, B, for one bar, then the four chord, A, for one bar, then play the one chord for bars eleven and twelve.

 

For "quick four" blues, you do the same except you play the four chord (instead of the one chord) for bar two.

 

Regular 12 bar is like "Black Cat Bone". Quick four, like Saturn said, is like "Statesboro Blues"

 

 

"Changing on the 5" is a regular expression in blues used to describe the insertion of the 4 chord in the second bar. Likely she was talking about the 5th beat, not the 5 chord.

 

Strangely, I've known plenty of peops use the expression even when the tune is 3/4 time, which makes no sense but there you go, ho hum and all that.

 

Wow! Thanks for the responses, I think these two are the correct idea of what she was asking me about as it seems to make since to me. I guess I just think like a drummer and singer when it comes to chord progression because I use the word's and timing as a guide when I play guitar as well. I should have said in my first post but here's the song we where playing at the time and pritey much in this way, I'm on drums on this video as it's one I made back before Christmas. I also would add that the differences of description of basically the same idea can also fall into the variations of how some people may play a given song. The change she was asking about on this number was the "F" chord during the verse, so it was where we where changing from "C" to "F" at the first change point in the verse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOGqWBqEr6Y