jaxson50 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_timeline-r1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyMoon Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Cool... some stuff there I didn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 VERY informative ! straight to "favorites" that went........ a while back someone asked "is rock dead" on this forum, and my reply still stands.... "not as long as Mr. Chuck Berry is alive !! i'm the only person in i'm sure a long time that rides thru Anniston Alabama at 3:am every morning with "Chuck Berrys' Greatest Hits" blaring from my truck windows.... makes the drive home from work worth staying awake for. Hail Hail Rock & Roll !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky4 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Nice post. I'm familiar with a lot of the early 50's stuff. I just listened to Rocket 88 the other day. Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretplay Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 This is fantastic Jax thank you very much for sharing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Cool!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzoboy Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 That's a great site for milestones in the rock genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthpawKen Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Right On! Now that's what I call History. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 I still haven't seen everything on this site...pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matonanjin Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Wow! is that interesting! Thanks for finding and posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Interesting, but it got a bit repetitive when everybody started dying. I think it's more a timeline of popular music. Rock'n'Roll was merely a term for the melding of various genres, but mostly the assimilation of black music into a reluctant* white mainstream. This latter aspect, I believe, had as much to do with the breakdown of the American apartheid system as Rosa Parks' refusal to give up her seat on the bus. Music has that uncanny ability to bring about social change. Nice to see Johnnie Ray mentioned — the missing link between Sinatra and Elvis and a huge fan of rhythm and blues. EE *For example, witness the attempt to put a white face on (and sanitize) Little Richard's Tutti Frutti with Pat Boone. Done solely for a white audience, a demographic which the mainstream record companies wrongly assumed would continue to relegate black music to the back of the bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 1363793738[/url]' post='1348367']Interesting, but it got a bit repetitive when everybody started dying. I think it's more a timeline of popular music. Rock'n'Roll was merely a term for the melding of various genres, but mostly the assimilation of black music into a reluctant* white mainstream. This latter aspect, I believe, had as much to do with the breakdown of the American apartheid system as Rosa Parks' refusal to give up her seat on the bus. Music has that uncanny ability to bring about social change. Rock n' Roll is popular music, it may have started as a fringe set of its own, but as soon as Buddy Holley used a string section in a song pop was upon us. Pop encompassed Soul R&R Rn'R and the varieties of RnR, such as swamp rock surf, etc. Nice to see Johnnie Ray mentioned — the missing link between Sinatra and Elvis and a huge fan of rhythm and blues. Johnnie Ray did well for a deaf man. EE *For example, witness the attempt to put a white face on (and sanitize) Little Richard's Tutti Frutti with Pat Boone. Done solely for a white audience, a demographic which the mainstream record companies wrongly assumed would continue to relegate black music to the back of the bus. Is that fair? If Pat Boone had not cut that record, Little Richards music may never have found a white audience because of segregation, Elvis, Boone, Perkins, and other white performers are the ones who broke the color barrier. They brought black music to the white youth made it popular (pop music), then the black artist could tour with white bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Is that fair? If Pat Boone had not cut that record, Little Richards music may never have found a white audience because of segregation, Elvis, Boone, Perkins, and other white performers are the ones who broke the color barrier. They brought black music to the white youth made it popular (pop music), then the black artist could tour with white bands. Yes, it's fair. The history is there. Little Richard's version was only slightly behind Boone's in the charts. There's no cause and effect in that particular case. That black artists could tour with white artists didn't mean they could share the same hotels on the road in those mid-fifties times. Plus, you inserted a paragraph into my original post which suggests Buddy Holly adding strings somehow created "pop" music. Before Buddy, Elvis and Boone, we had Perry Como, Rosemary Clooney, Bing Crosby, inter alia - who in no way can be collectively referred to as anything but "popular" singers (or singers of "pop"). In defense of Pat Boone, though, I do have a nostalgic fondness for "Love Letters In The Sand." He did a good job. Having said that, the original by Lee Morse is the complete version of the song, if a little quaint (1931, I think). Respectfully, EE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 No, I did not suggest that Buddy created pop. He was considered a rocker, but he added strings and crossed over into pop. I did not intent to add to your stuff, I did try to respond to each paragraph, but my IPad screws me up at every turn...My point is black rockers had a hard time getting their stuff played on white stations, Elvis and others who did covers of black rockers did not rip them off, they brought the music to the white audience who then started to demand to hear the real thing. Nat King Cole was a jazz piano player, until he started singing covers of white artist, then he was allowed to be played to white audiences even allowed to have his own TV show the first black artist to have one, was he a bootlegger of white music? No, he was a artist who played what he liked, so was Elvis and Boone. Ray Charles understood it better most, he crossover so many music forms he was impossible to nail down. Country, rock, should jazz, but would he have found a white audience if guys like Boone and Elvis and others had not first introduce it to young whites? Motown records could not have turned a profit selling to blacks only, they needed a white audience, whites made up 85% of the population then, if white players had not broken the ice by bringing black music into the mainstream, Motown would have tanked. The first interracial band to cross over the color barrier on stage and on the air was Booker T and the MGs with Green Onion. Recorded in a white owned studio sold by a white label to mostly white audiences. But someone had to prime the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 No, I did not suggest that Buddy created pop. He was considered a rocker, but he added strings and crossed over into pop. I did not intent to add to your stuff, I did try to respond to each paragraph, but my IPad screws me up at every turn...My point is black rockers had a hard time getting their stuff played on white stations, Elvis and others who did covers of black rockers did not rip them off, they brought the music to the white audience who then started to demand to hear the real thing. Nat King Cole was a jazz piano player, until he started singing covers of white artist, then he was allowed to be played to white audiences even allowed to have his own TV show the first black artist to have one, was he a bootlegger of white music? No, he was a artist who played what he liked, so was Elvis and Boone. Ray Charles understood it better most, he crossover so many music forms he was impossible to nail down. Country, rock, should jazz, but would he have found a white audience if guys like Boone and Elvis and others had not first introduce it to young whites? Motown records could not have turned a profit selling to blacks only, they needed a white audience, whites made up 85% of the population then, if white players had not broken the ice by bringing black music into the mainstream, Motown would have tanked. The first interracial band to cross over the color barrier on stage and on the air was Booker T and the MGs with Green Onion. Recorded in a white owned studio sold by a white label to mostly white audiences. But someone had to prime the pump. Reasonable points, but I would never suggest that white artists generally "ripped off" black artists (their "managers," however, often did). When Elvis did "Good Rockin' Tonight" I've no doubt that it was done in earnest homage to the Roy Brown and/or Wynonie Harris originals. Nothing can convince me, however, that some white covers were not made to cash in on a burgeoning market. I cited Pat Boone's "Tutti Frutti" (and its A-side "I'll Be Home") as an illustration of this belief. Still. beliefs are not always facts. I'll remain open to evidence to the contrary, but history has a habit of pointing in the right direction unless it's rewritten for the benefit of the victors. As for Ray Charles, he would have been successful without any assistance from anyone. Genius counts. EE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzoboy Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Re black artists being ripped off: The most outrageous and blatant rip-off was of Chuck Berry who was forced to tour all of his life in order to make enough money to get by because Alan Freed and some unscrupulous record company execs put their names on his records to get the lion's share of the writing credits whereas Chuck got SFA,this was one of the biggest abominations in the record industry.I'm pretty sure that the whole works of them are getting char-broiled in Hades for this-at least I hope they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Re black artists being ripped off: The most outrageous and blatant rip-off was of Chuck Berry who was forced to tour all of his life in order to make enough money to get by because Alan Freed and some unscrupulous record company execs put their names on the records to get the lion's share of the writing credits whereas Chuck got SFA,this was one of the biggest abominations in the record industry.I'm pretty sure that the whole works of them are getting char-broiled in Hades for this-at least I hope they are. Bravo, bonzoboy. There was a time when "entrepreneurs" would toss a hundred dollars or two to black composers in exchange for all song rights in perpetuity, including the songwriters' share of income. These writers often drifted into poverty and self destructive habits while the profiteers got richer decade after decade through airplay and mechanical royalties. The music business is not and never was for the faint of heart nor the naive. EE P.S. I read somewhere that Keith Richards expressed surprise and dismay that Chuck wanted to charge rent on his amplifier during the filming of "Hail, Hail..." I guess he had no clue as to why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Great link thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 1363974278[/url]' post='1349490']Reasonable points, but I would never suggest that white artists generally "ripped off" black artists (their "managers," however, often did). When Elvis did "Good Rockin' Tonight" I've no doubt that it was done in earnest homage to the Roy Brown and/or Wynonie Harris originals. Nothing can convince me, however, that some white covers were not made to cash in on a burgeoning market. I cited Pat Boone's "Tutti Frutti" (and its A-side "I'll Be Home") as an illustration of this belief. Still. beliefs are not always facts. I'll remain open to evidence to the contrary, but history has a habit of pointing in the right direction unless it's rewritten for the benefit of the victors. As for Ray Charles, he would have been successful without any assistance from anyone. Genius counts. EE I love Ray Charles, one of the best shows I ever saw! But even he would admit that he was at heart a cover artist, out of all the songs he recorded and had hits with, most were written by others, Hoagy Carmichael, Hank Williams, the last time I checked were white guys, and if Ray had waited for a black owned record label to sign him, we would never have had the great pleasure and blessing of his music. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ray_Charles_songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I love Ray Charles, one of the best shows I ever saw! But even he would admit that he was at heart a cover artist, out of all the songs he recorded and had hits with, most were written by others, Hoagy Carmichael, Hank Williams, the last time I checked were white guys, and if Ray had waited for a black owned record label to sign him, we would never have had the great pleasure and blessing of his music. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ray_Charles_songs Great sentiments about a great artist who had probably the greatest single influence on my own musical direction (along with Franz Schubert, another genius). Yes, he was a cover artist in general, but a great interpreter. He did write "What'd I Say" (off the cuff) and I think that his live version of "Drown In My Own Tears" is one of the greatest live recordings ever. In any event, my original point concerned the erroneous distinction between Rock'n'Roll and popular music. Popular music can be Ray, Elvis, Ersel Hickey or Percy Faith. It's been popular. EE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky4 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Kind of skips over the alternative era.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 1364002801[/url]' post='1349796']Great sentiments about a great artist who had probably the greatest single influence on my own musical direction (along with Franz Schubert, another genius). Yes, he was a cover artist in general, but a great interpreter. He did write "What'd I Say" (off the cuff) and I think that his live version of "Drown In My Own Tears" is one of the greatest live recordings ever. In any event, my original point concerned the erroneous distinction between Rock'n'Roll and popular music. Popular music can be Ray, Elvis, Ersel Hickey or Percy Faith. It's been popular. EE For the most part, after Ray did a song, it was his! If had the chance to see him live with his orchestra and missed it, key me tell you, it was a great show, he had a lot of talent with him. I saw him in San Jose in 1975. I have always thought that he was the the best crossover artist, when he released Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music, he shook the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 1363981781[/url]' post='1349555']Bravo, bonzoboy. There was a time when "entrepreneurs" would toss a hundred dollars or two to black composers in exchange for all song rights in perpetuity, including the songwriters' share of income. These writers often drifted into poverty and self destructive habits while the profiteers got richer decade after decade through airplay and mechanical royalties. The music business is not and never was for the faint of heart nor the naive. EE P.S. I read somewhere that Keith Richards expressed surprise and dismay that Chuck wanted to charge rent on his amplifier during the filming of "Hail, Hail..." I guess he had no clue as to why. Chuck Berry was a inspiration to a lot of young white rockers, and many blacks thought he was pandering to young whites. Seems to be a bit of bashing going on here, too bad we have to inject bullshit into a light subject. Some people are never happy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastEnder Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Chuck Berry was a inspiration to a lot of young white rockers, and many blacks thought he was pandering to young whites. Seems to be a bit of bashing going on here, too bad we have to inject bullshit into a light subject. Some people are never happy.. Not much sense being made here. Let's move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 1364014457[/url]' post='1349868']Not much sense being made here. Let's move on. Your in charge now are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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