pawlowski6132
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Posts posted by pawlowski6132
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I think most people would say a guitar from the '90s is not vintage
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Right it's got to be a certain age and good. I think I've said that like three times already.
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And I guess it only really matters when you're trying to sell something and use the vintage label to get premium dollars. If I'm in the market for a 93 acoustic from Bozeman and somebody wants to charge me more because they think it's vintage. That's not going to fly with me.
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Maybe there's some relativity in it too. My son is 16. He probably thinks that guitar from 93 is vintage. I'm 56. It's got to be older than me for it to even be on the vintage radar.
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Yeah I get it but when they bought it they didn't say oh I'm buying a vintage guitar.
30 years old is nothing.
I have shoes that old that I still wear. Trust me they're not vintage.
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Also having that insight on what is great and what will be vintage in 50 years would be cool. I wish my grandpa had bought a 1934 l5 and just put it under the bed.
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That's a good point which begs the question does vintage just mean old? It sounds like you are saying no.
However, I do think that is a component and I would say that vintage means it is old (whatever that means, see my definition above) AND great.
To which I would say those Bozeman acoustic you're mentioning could be great but I would not call them vintage because they are not great AND old.
To me the term vintage suggests a bygone era of which today cannot be replicated for various reasons.
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32 minutes ago, cunningham26 said:
pre-1969 are generally vintage but they are now over 50 years old and with Gibson it all depends on the little specs and then the life it lived. i've played some dogs from 1955 priced to market, and played some really killer off years.
modern era, i think the early bozeman stuff will get really valuable, stuff that Ren was actively involved in. Interesting custom shop stuff, just basically higher quality from the start will age and gain value over the factory line stuff. Depending on how they break in, i could see the Murphy Labs getting really hot too
I assume you're just talking Electric? I collect only acoustics (flattops and archtops), i consider only '40's and older to be vintage. 50's starts to resemble modern eras in design, manufacturing technique, wood availability, other materials and suppliers, etc.
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So, I did a fair amount of online research and think this is a 1909 Gibson Style O / Auditorium archtop.
There are so many variations between 1905 and 1910, it's hard to really peg down a year and or understand where this belongs in the lineage/timeline.
Label was scraped out for some reason.
Serial number is 7677 (I think)
FON 643
HERE's a link to a photo album.
What I would really like is some alternate sources like books or other hard copy literature, catalogs, etc. so I can learn as much as I can as I can about these archtops from the first decade.
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If the guitar is older than me to it's vintage.
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I'm interested in Gibson guitars from 1900 to 1910.
Are there any comprehensive definitive sources available?
I already have Spans guide and other online resources are spotty at best.
I'm hoping to avoid large volumes covering a broader topic wherein these specific guitars are less than 1% of the book content of possible. They tend to treat this period lightly and can't go into depth.
Thanks in advance.
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10 minutes ago, cunningham26 said:
i think you're onto something that it was sent back- definitely unique in the finer details of the appointments. the headstock inlay almost looks like they didnt have the stencil and wanted to just push the two together to knock it out in one go. the headstock shape is that of the late 30s/40s but without the extra binding. but TRC has been replaced from a normal black one.
all in all, it lived a life. I'm almost certain that JT or someone else has mentioned that the gibson ledgers include warranty work- if you end up with it, you could certainly have someone scour to see if it's listed somewhere
Great call outs. If the body has some red pencil/ink inside, that's another indication that it's been sent back to the factory (through dealership in those days) for repair and/or warranty work.
Who knows, the neck could be an EXCELLENT one. I was told it doesn't appear to even have had a neck reset much less a new neck replacement.
Maybe it's the original neck with a new freboard and headstock laminate?
who knows
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16 minutes ago, cunningham26 said:
one pictured on the prewar website here
jonathan stout's L12 here also with split inlays and a unique headstock inlay
an earlier 1935 with a similar inlay
I'm not super familiar with this model but it seems to me that gibson either gave the customer a bunch of choices, or just had some creative license with their inlay person at this time. the only thing consistent with Gibson is the inconsistency!
one pictured on the prewar website here
- Pre war yes but this is the 16" model built before 1936 and is usual fretboard inlay (you can't see the headstock logo in these pictures)(different than Guitar Center)
jonathan stout's L12 here also with split inlays and a unique headstock inlay
- This is the 17" model and this is the typical fretboard and headstock inlay (different than Guitar Center)
an earlier 1935 with a similar inlay
- Same as the first one. (different than Guitar Center)
So, we see TWO combinations of freboard and headstock inlays for prewar L12; 16" and Advanced 17", NEITHER of which match the Guitar Center guitar.
I know there were custom orders but, I don't believe someone would custom order this headstock logo. It 's makes much more sense that the neck was replaced during the 40's or 50's.
Still looking though for someone to show an example of Prewar L12 with this if possible.
I don't see any prewar L7, L10 or L5 with this type of neck either.
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11 minutes ago, cunningham26 said:
That's def a 1930s script logo, and the closeup from this link definitely indicates that the inlay is the same material as the logo. i dont see anything wrong with it apart from that offgassing pickguard
No argument with the script Gibson but, I've NEVER seen the headstock inlay (on any prewar archtop) with split parallelogram inlays on any 17" L12. I agree the materials are the same which leads me to believe this is NOT the original neck.
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5 minutes ago, Dave F said:
It is!
What do you think it is?
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Here's the image inline.
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4 minutes ago, Dave F said:
Thanx. Different inlays and different headstock logo.
Have you seen the picture in my link? It shows the inlays and logo I'm trying to find the picture of.
I can't seem to find it anywhere. It's weird. Clearly, the headstock has severe checking so, not a recent replacement if indeed it is.
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Thanx. Yeah, I've seen that one before.
My pictures is from a guitar not from the contemporary Custom Shop however.
It's on what is purported to be an L12 archtop from the mid/late 30's. I questioned that because I can't find an example of an L12 from that brief period with a split parallelogram and this specific logo.
I suspect a replaced neck (from the '40's?) or replaced fretboard and headstock laminate (if possible?) Whole neck replace more likely.
However, I'm struggling to find an example of this headstock logo to understand what period is from.
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This is from a Gibson Archtop. Has anyone seen this combination of logo and fretboard inlays??
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RrGyvrzeaP8zsdLr6
Sorry for the link. Impossible to get a photo here.
thanx
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On 6/3/2018 at 11:12 AM, Hogeye said:
There is some very interesting history going on with the classical guitars. Gibson/Montana was actually a Ramirez distributor for several years way back in the beginning. They were unsuccessful in the endeavor as they were more interested in selling their own brand. The Ramirez deal went from 1990 to 1993. This was the same time frame that Christopher Parkening was presenting his Masters Class at the Montana State University here in Bozeman.
The Roger Miller connection came after he passed and his family was asked by Gibson to endorse a very limited run of classical guitars in his memory. I have a couple of sound hole labels and interestingly enough several of the round sound hole cut-outs from the very first of these guitars. There wasn't a lot of interest in the guitars and most of them went to his family and folks from his record label.
If any of them come up on the market I would love to know about it. So.....Your mission should you choose accept it would be to make a post of it on the forum and maybe I will see it.
So, I may buy one of the Roger Miller models mentioned above. Can I assume they're the same design, quality and wood selection used in the earlier production run? I wonder what model or Ramirez these were modeled off of.
FWIW, this one has a label dated 10/30/94.
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On 6/6/2019 at 1:11 PM, sbpark said:
If it’s perfect, why are you selling it?
Perfect guitar doesn't mean he want's it. I've sold many perfect guitars that I can't play because I just had too many at the time.
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On 1/30/2019 at 11:12 PM, The G said:
Sad to hear Gibson has discontinued this model.
The craftsmanship on mine is fabulous. Beautifully silked spruce top and gorgeous mahogany back and sides. Great looking rosewood used on the neck and
bridge . And ....awesome sound and projection ( Subjective I know)
So my theory is they priced the instrument too low in their product line and weren’t making enough markup.
![[glare]](//content.invisioncic.com/p286412/emoticons/default_msp_glare.gif)
What are your thoughts?
Obviously, if they weren't making enough margin on each guitar, they could just raise the price; They're the company. Plus, they would have know ahead of time what it was going to cost to make it and would have just priced it the right way from the start.
Actually, models come and go. If they stop making one model; who cares? If you want one, go buy a used one.
Be glad they did because now the used ones (like yours) in theory, may hold their value better.
I'm sure, like most of their models, they'll put this back into production at some point in the next 20 years.
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You definitely bought the Spectrum. The plectrum are round-wound and more even tension across the set and are more mellow than spectrum.
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No. Low demand. They sit on reverb for too long.
I had one and loved it. Took me a year to sell.
![[glare]](http://content.invisioncic.com/p286412/emoticons/default_msp_glare.gif)
Which era Gibsons are considered "vintage" nowadays?
in Vintage Corner
Posted
You're still missing the point. Yes most people think old is vintage but not old and s*****. Old and good equals vintage. Again, not old and s*****