Zob Bimmerman
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Posts posted by Zob Bimmerman
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After a seemingly endless wait, I have gratefully received my new Gibson SJ200 1957 Montana.
Wow is all I can say. As a Producer of some years now, I don’t say that lightly. It’s a game changer, simple as that - but I hardly need to convince anyone of that here!
My question is about temperature…
I’m in London, UK, and it’s winter now so my home studio has an ambient temperature variance of 13 - 20 degrees celsius. In summer the temperature can vary from 20 - 35 degrees celsius! Humidity seems to average at around 65 RH in winter and 50 RH in summer.
Until I’d owned such an expensive guitar, I’d never considered whether these kinds of temperature changes might negatively impact the structural integrity of acoustic instruments.
Am I safe to leave the guitar out of its case? Or do I need a thermal regulator eg an oil-filled heater / air conditioner set to, say, 20 degrees celsius all year round?Many thanks for your wise advice!
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That’s so interesting to read re. the various bracing formations.
And you think that if this bridge was modded, it was done by Gibson directly?
I’m imagining that the closed moustache bridge (with that extra MoP inlay) has an effect on the sound when compared to the regular open moustache. Or, as you say, is this a case of ‘dog hearing’!
Also, the pick guard: it looks screwed in, and I guess the material too would be different. Any effects on sound?
Lastly, the wood. Is there such a thing as too old/dry? I find that with pianos, they lose some richness if they’re too old and haven’t been kept meticulously well (which is asking a lot of most owners).
As a producer, the recorded sound is my only priority. Feel-wise, I can adapt to most well made guitars. If the intonation is good, I’m good to go...
Thank you as ever for the insights!
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Hello chaps, hope you are all well!
My search has shown no signs of letting up. Given the cost and the restrictions of lockdown, I have been taking it slowly to learn as much as possible before parting with my pension savings! I wanted to check in with you all about an unusual specimen I’ve been alerted to.
It’s a 1969 one (pic attached) and its bridge has me wondering how this compares to the regular moustache ones? I’m assuming it was originally an ABR-1 Tune-o-matic but has been modified at some point to Gibson’s more recent bone saddle bridge?
Have any of the you played one like this and are able to comment on it? Eg I hear the 70s butterfly bridges aren’t as good but perhaps this one is..?
For the record (quite literally) I’m never been keen on instruments older that 40yrs. And 20yrs is about right for me with acoustic guitars, so considering one from 1969 is a stretch.... BUT if it’s a sonic vibe, then I’d be prepared to make the pilgrimage!Your thoughts and advice are warmly received, as always 🙂
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4 hours ago, E-minor7 said:
But as an ear-man you probably know it comes down to extremely individual and unique factors when choosing instruments
100%. Lovely to see that pic of Jimmy (with the mic pointed curiously close to the sound hole!)
4 hours ago, E-minor7 said:Could be fun to hear some of your tracks with whatever Jumbo you bring home. Post us some links, Zob
Will definitely do so. The chain of variables in the recording context are like a Pandora's Box of considerations. Everything has to connect: the song > the guitar part itself > the performer > the guitar > the plectrum, and string gauge and age > the room > the mic(s) > the mic pre amp > the interface's audio-digital converter > the editing and mixing skills of the engineer.
So I've spent the last few years really trying to hone-in on each aspect to ensure that the overall chain combines to be "greater than the sum of its parts". Sounds crazy but only last year I got really into exploring different types of plectrums. I've been recording for nearly 20 years and always used the same two plectrum types! But that simple exploration made more difference than the mics.
When it comes to guitar shapes, I've always had Dreadnought and Parlour sizes at my disposal but never a Jumbo. Last year I found myself listening to commercial recordings which featured Jumbos and I could hear not only what I was missing, but what I should've been using all these years!
So this Saturday I'm looking forward to finally doing what's been a long time a'coming 🤞
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12 hours ago, 62burst said:
Was Gibson still doing the "shroud" case thing on some special runs as late as 2008? I've seen gray interiors, but never noticed the "Custom" word on the case exterior
I was curious about this too; both the 'shroud' and the "custom".
9 hours ago, Jinder said:2008 was a good year
So interesting how there are these good and bad years/periods - just like with wines. I've anecdotally heard about the nadir of the Norlin years, and the return to form with Bozeman, but I've never played such a range of Jumbos, like you guys, to have that authority. One day...!
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Happy New Year, troubadours!
I hope you all had a wonderful break (pandemic notwithstanding) and are safe and well 🙂 Just wanted to update you on progress of purchase.
Over Christmas, London (where I live) has got quite bad with the new variant of Covid, and the seller of the Historic is more uneasy with meeting people. He is older and his wife is high-risk so, of course, I understand and respect this, and I don't want to push him to meet me and let me play it.
My last conversation with him was yesterday. I have to say I was feeling very down about it - I was all ready to travel up to him and potentially come home with a Jumbo! I then checked Facebook Marketplace out of habit and up popped this guitar: https://trentsideguitars.co.uk/product/gibson-j200-custom-2006/ It seems to be very close in spec to the Historic I was previously looking to purchase. A couple of notes:
- The price is much more reduced on the Facebook ad (which our friends abroad may not be able to access?): https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/312163150114334/
- The photos on the ad are slightly different and show the serial number as 02258011 (from what I can make out?). If so, this would date the guitar to 2008..?
I'd love to hear any thoughts or advice you have on this Jumbo. I'm determined as ever to get one. If she provisionally checks out OK, I'll journey up this weekend and, fingers crossed, come back with her.
Huge thank you as ever for your time and knowledge!
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20 minutes ago, Paul14 said:
Not sure where you’re located
I’m in London, UK, where everything is a bit more expensive, but the seller is in a regional northern town, the kind where most things are slightly cheaper. Given the national (global?) recession, I’m just trying to work out what I could offer without being offensive, ie what’s a fair price all things considered...? 🤔
Your buyer in Denmark clearly just had to have your guitar, which is a lovely outcome. I’d struggle to enjoy something that I’d paid over the odds for, but only because music producers don’t get paid like they used to!
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5 minutes ago, Paul14 said:
Just saw the $ conversion on eBay, don’t know what prices are like in your neck of the Woods’s, so I won’t make a comment!😱
Haha, well I’m keen to hear all your thoughts on pricing. I’d obviously negotiate, but how far down and based on what reasoning?
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Just now, Paul14 said:
He excepts PayPal on the eBay listing, as well as credit cards? Don’t see why you couldn’t get some kind of documentation?
It’s weird because his description asks for cash only? He mentions is three times: “cash on pick up only no postage cash only made in USA 2002/3 cash only”
If he’d get back to me I could feel it out - have a chat on the phone!
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7 minutes ago, Paul14 said:
PayPal offers good protections too. If you have an account. The guy could send you an invoice.
I wish this was an option. Both sellers are old-school: cash on collection, no refund. Such stipulations do narrow their market as both sellers aren’t exactly in major towns or cities, so I guess fewer people will be enquiring?
Thinking about it though, I would ideally like an invoice as it’d be a work-related expense which saves on the tax front!
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45 minutes ago, Paul14 said:
Is there a way to contact the seller other than through eBay?
So the original listing for the Historic that I’m leaning towards is on Facebook Marketplace and it’s for £2,550. This is where I first came across it, instead of £2,600 on eBay - and this difference must be to reflect eBay’s fees, as you mentioned, Paul.
Weirdly, the eBay listing contains more photos but the same casual-style description. I see that the seller has sold other decent guitars and has positive feedback, but I have my doubts as to whether he is a J200 aficionado. He doesn’t seem to have poured over the details in his description. Ironically, maybe I’m reading too much into it!
24 minutes ago, 62burst said:Kinda usual to not include a photo of the '200's bound headstock in the listing for the Historic- it's a great Gibson look. Photo 5 is a great camera angle that provides a lot of info- saddle height, maybe string height over the fretboard extension, the dramatic maple figuring on the sides (even though there might be some lacquer crazing near the binding, not a deal breaker at all), and the binding on the neck makes it a little easier to get an idea of it's flatness. The spruce top has a nice cross-silking. . . the guitar probably sounds great. The 3 piece neck has a great flamey look up towards, and at, the headstock. The pickguard is worn fairly even along it's length- usually the wear is just in one spot- the guitar's sound has probably opened up nicely.
This is very positive feedback, 62! I’d made contact with the seller on ‘Messenger’ chat (via Facebook Marketplace) and am yet to learn any more other other than that it is still available. He has my email and phone number. I can only presume/hope that, being Christmas, he is busy..?
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4 hours ago, 62burst said:
the owner, living in Florida, told me he'd have to go out back and get it. . . it was in the SHED.
Jeepers! I’d say I’m within the realms of acceptable storage then. Your advise about avoiding external walls is great - duly noted.
It turns out that the Historic I’m leaning towards is also on eBay. I’d first contacted each seller after seeing both Historic and Standard on Facebook Marketplace - a platform which has worked best for me in recent years.
Re. possible reflection on upper bout of the Historic, here’s the link for the ad so you can see all the pictures :
And for fair comparison, here’s the Facebook Marketplace ad for the Standard (it just might not be accessible if you’re overseas?):
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/838686896865527/
Feels wise to share in an honourable space such as this. FWIW I’m hoping to negotiate on the price 🤞
• Both sellers yet to send videos.
• Both want cash on collection. -
On 12/22/2020 at 2:07 PM, 62burst said:
not kept in the case👎🏼
While I wait for vids and pics from the sellers, I’ve gone back over this thread to digest some of the other advice. This from 62burst caught my attention again as I usually keep my guitars on wall hangers in the studio. Will this practice need to change once I get the Jumbo? Is this issue to do with temperature?
Some of my acoustic guitars are inexpensive workhorses which I don’t always record with, but I do also have a lovely Martin mahogany parlour which sees a lot of mic action. When I’m absent, the temperature of the room might drop to 15 degrees celsius in winter, and during use in summer it can hit 25 degrees c. Should I therefore be storing this guitar - and eventually the Jumbo - in its hard case when not in use?
I’ve always considered electric guitars to be generally more resilient, hence why I haven’t questioned their storage, but is this also negligent? I’m mindful that it’s a balance of practicality and safety: the wall hangers create more space and make instrument-use immediate which is conducive to workflow and creativity; but am I shooting myself in the foot, longterm...?
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12 hours ago, RBSinTo said:
This isn't a $20.00 purchase, so I don't think you are being unreasonable or too demanding. Additionally, with the current economic situation being what it is, I doubt that either seller has a long line of prospective buyers banging down his door, so you probably will have more leverage with respect to information requested before buying.
This is a reassuring and realistic review of the situation. Thank you, RBSinTo.
11 hours ago, Brucebubs said:I was going to offer to check one or both out if they were anywhere near me
The generosity on this forum is unique! Thank you, Brucebubs - I fully appreciate the thought 😊
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50 minutes ago, 62burst said:
A bit confused, here- you’re looking to commit to the purchase online, pay & collect in person? Is this due to a concern that it might sell before you get to try it out? Have you had phone conversations with the seller(s) yet? That’s usually the best way to get an idea of what you’re getting into, and with whom.
Sorry - I didn’t explain that fully. Neither seller wants to courier, and the Historic seller wants cash.
If I were a bit younger, freer and madder, I’d probably pilgrimage, at great expense of time and money, to both over the course of two days to try them both out. But I’m hoping that if I do the ‘due diligence’, seek and follow the right advice, and collaborate with the vendor on checking it over, I could rule out one and collect the other in person, thus saving myself one of the journeys.
What do you think? Is there a better way to approach this..?
1 hour ago, Jinder said:I'm sure the seller will furnish you with pics for more evidence.
I really hope so. I’m still waiting for these quite specific videos to come through... A mix of xmas chaos and the chore of filming has no doubt slowed things down. I know that I must ask these things of them but I do worry that I come across as demanding and, frankly, a ballache of a buyer!
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14 hours ago, Paul14 said:
If you wanted something nicer for the end pin you could also consider something like this .
Great shout - thank you, Paul.
9 hours ago, 62burst said:As a record producer and a bit of a tone purist, you might appreciate that there are many acoustic players that like to have nothing impeding the transfer of energy between the saddle and the bridge.
Absolutely. I like to remove any unnecessary variables. Acoustic recording is enough of a challenge without potentially unwanted dampening/rattling, no matter how negligible.
6 hours ago, Jinder said:I saw the second one you posted listed on Facebook Marketplace this afternoon...it's in Sturminster Newton, which is around 30mins drive from me! In normal circumstances I'd happily volunteer to drive over, try it out and report back, but irritatingly I'm currently unable to drive and am in hospital for half of every day for treatment, which is a huge inconvenience...are you based down this way?
Masterful sleuthing, Jinder. Moreover how incredibly kind (and I send you good vibrations for a full recovery)! Yes the Standard is quite a way from fully locked-down London where I am. The Historic is in Wigan, even further. So I’m sadly looking at an online decision and then getting a train to pay and collect (just in case the vibe feels off once she’s in my hands).
6 hours ago, Jinder said:I was the person who suggested to Gibson, when I had an endorsement deal with them in '07 and '08
Wow. That is seriously cool, man! So they took a great idea and kinda botched it? Good to know though that de-flubberisation is a thing, ha!
13 hours ago, Brucebubs said:I like the 1st one with the 4-bar insert bridge and keystone tuners, saddle height looks good too.
This is where I’m leaning too, aesthetically... Adds sway to what Jinder and others are advising re. the build.
I’ve asked the vendors for a video of their guitar being strummed and picked (for general sound), of each string plucked open followed by at the 12th fret (for intonation), and for a straight edge to be laid along the neck (to check the angle). Hoping I’ve not come across as too demanding. I will report back with my findings!
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I don’t think I’ve got the stomach for chopping into the bracing!
6 hours ago, Jinder said:The first one is an earlier Historic Collection model, with the painted (and faded) pickguard, the second one is a later Standard model with the "flubber" pickguard, which has the design printed under a protective layer.
The headstock looks different too. The Standard seems to have those gold Grover machine heads I’m used to seeing, but the older Historic one has the kind you find on their electric guitars, eg the Les Pauls. What’s the practical difference, if any, between the two?
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1 hour ago, Paul14 said:
I’ve removed 4 under saddle pickups without having to do anything. If anything it has improved the action ,,,,,,,slightly.
Sounds promising. I have an unholy knack of breaking things.
1 hour ago, zombywoof said:My wife, as example, has had pickups installed in both her 1960 J200 and 2016 Martin 12-28 .
Yikes. Though I accept that for live performers this is practical. I’ve heard some good things about K&K PUs, and Jinder has spoken highly of the Sunrise ones.
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1 hour ago, 62burst said:
However, keep in mind- removing the undersaddle transducer will slightly lower the action
Ah, that’s interesting. I assumed that the PU system would have no affect on this. I obviously don’t understand the architecture well enough. Presumably then this is a job for a luthier. Any idea what I might expect to pay? I’m London-based.
4 hours ago, Jinder said:the second one is a later Standard model with the "flubber" pickguard,
Flubber sounds baaad for tone... Or have I just kicked a hornet’s nest? 😅
3 hours ago, 62burst said:If buying long distance, what I would want to see would be a straight edge laid from the top of the fretboard to the bridge, to get an idea of the neck angle.
Top tip. Yes, sadly they’re both a fairly far from me. Add into that the Tier 4 lockdown restrictions in London and it’s looking like I’ll have to take a punt (which frankly feels sacrilegious, given the cost!). Also, as a kid in the 90s, I once travelled alone to Nottingham with an envelope of cash to buy my first proper electric - a Rickenbacker 330. Still own it and it’s magical. Can’t quite believe I did that. Kids, eh..!
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At the risk of sounding sycophantic, I’m overawed by the sharing of knowledge and wisdom. Thank you all, especially Jinder and 62burst, for taking the time to feedback in such detail and with such clarity. You’ve covered more than I’d ever have considered.
I’m a record producer and something of a purist when it comes to tone. I nearly always record acoustic guitars in an X-Y stereo mic configuration. I’ve never tried blending in a pickup signal as I’ve always found it a bit plastic, therefore I’d seek to remove the pickup. Is this difficult or unwise? Jinder’s comment about rattling pickup paraphernalia is unsettling!
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Hey guys,
I’m new (but I don’t expect you to go easy on me, haha).
After many years, I’m hoping to finally own a J-200.
I’m doing the usual back-and-forth with various online vendors (videos, interrogations, etc) and I think I’m down to two guitars.
Here are links to a picture of them each:
https://pasteboard.co/JG63CnO.png
https://pasteboard.co/JG64FVn.png
I’m wondering if, on-paper, one is likely be a better than the other? I realise that this is largely academic but, all the same, would anyone want to venture their opinion?
As a noob, any intel from actual players is gold to me!
Thank you in advance for your time,
Zob
Temperature variance in studio for SJ200 1957 Montana
in Gibson Acoustic
Posted
Fascinating, and enlightening, to read your real-world experiences of caring for these kinds of instruments.
Here’s what I’m hearing as the headlines:
• Avoid exposure to sudden/rapid changes in temperature and humidity.
• Case-up the guitar if likely to be subjected to these dynamic shifts and/or if not being played for extended periods anyway.
• A sweet-spot environment is around 20 degrees celsius and 50 RH.
• Make enough money to own a climate controlled display cabinet - or room, ideally! 🙂