Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Macmutt

  1. Well, I do understand your argument about Les Pauls staying true to their original design and I do agree in some respects, but it was players complaining about the weight back in the 60's & 70's that forced Gibson to re-evaluate solid LP's and bring the first weight relieved ones out in the 80's. These days you have the choice of either and that's a good thing for players I believe. Maybe if Gibson USA brought out an option for solid or relieved on each model (Standard, Traditional etc) that might be a good thing if feasable, rather than having to buy a custom shop model in most cases. They seem to be addressing this though as I've noticed a few runs of solid LP Traditional's over the past few years and obviously the one you have been looking at for 2017 is non weight relieved. Whether an LP is solid or weight relieved doesn't really bother me, unless it's a reissue and then it should stay true to original specs.


    I agree 100%, i'm not saying everyone should buy a solid body Les Paul, but Gibson should always offer players the choice of weight relieved and solid bodies in their production line up every year.....That's all.


    My original statement was that Les Paul's that are made with solid bodies and absolutely no weight relief are the only models that are really true to the Les Paul name and the original production line.....weight relieved Les Paula are not true Les Paula in my opinion and no amount of debate is going to change that opinion...but to each his own.

  2. Again.. Just proves he knows nothing...... My LP Standard which is chambered is 9.5lbs... Its perfect... My Classic is about 11.5lbs and I wouldn't want one heavier....


    Good luck finding a solid body guitar that weighs 4lbs... That's just a joke and exaggeration to try and prove his pointless point... Even my chambered LP Studio weighs 7.5lbs... Just more nonsense


    And if he thinks 10lbs is heavy.. he don't know heavy [-X


    In this video these two guys from Andertons Music in the U.K. test multiple Les Paul guitars, about 11 minutes and 40 seconds into the video they do a time test for the chambered Les Paul standard's sustain, against a solid body Epiphone standard and the Gibson rings out for 7 seconds and the Epiphone rings out for almost 30 seconds.



    Watch it for your self.....


  3. Macmutt, what I'd like to know is why you are so annoyed about weight relief now? It's no new thing as Gibson have being doing some form of weight relief since the early 1980's. If you have been playing as long as you say, then why are you acting like weight relief is this new terrible affliction on Les Pauls? Move on and get over it! Why don't you spend more time practising and playing guitar then worrying about trivial things? Some players get so hung up on these trivial things and forget that BEING A GOOD PLAYER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE INSTRUMENT YOU USE, as long as the instrument is playable and fairly well made.


    Furthermore, as a few have already stated BUY A CUSTOM SHOP NON WEIGHT RELIEVED LP...or why not a Junior or Special? In my collection I have a Special, a Music City Jnr Special and a Junior which are Gibson USA and made of solid mahogany (except the Music City one which is Ash). I have a non weight relieved '57 Custom Reissue too...but I also have a Classic, Trad Pro, Studio and Standard all of which are weight relieved. They are all great guitars, despite the various methods of construction. There are lots of options out there, so stop whining like a baby!


    Btw, where do you stand on '70's pancake body Les Pauls? I bet you love them [biggrin]


    You know what..for the most part i agree with everything you said here, i just can't help but get really annoyed when companies like Gibson mess with such a perfect and historic instrument like the Les Paul, i just don't see why they can't leave it as is.


    Look at Fender and Rickenbacker, the Strat nor the Ric 360 has ever been altered since their conception, both are still made exactly how they were from day one.

    So why couldn't Gibson just do the same ? Thats all i'm saying, there is just no need to mess with a classic.

  4. *sigh*


    Go back and read, Macmutt.


    I didn't come into the thread agreeing with you.

    I came into this thread with a kind and friendly attitude, and a willingness to understand your side of things.


    My own words:

    “I get where you are coming from, really I do.

    And I agree with some of the spirit of your posting, if not the letter.”


    ….and then I went on with some great examples of how we all have our own preferences regarding guitars, cars, and whatnot. And how none of us are necessarily wrong, but are rather just entitled to our own opinions.


    At one point I even declared to the other posters that I didn't agree with the mean-spirited nature of their replies.


    But, you being you, you weren’t content to just express your opinion.

    You had to stress over and over again how your being right meant that everyone else was wrong.


    I never in my life 'jump ship' on being kind and willing to understand.

    And my last post, though highly critical of your postings, was still very much kind and even-handed.

    I simply spoke the truth, and the truth apparently stings your delicate sensibilities.


    (Trust me, sport. If I wanted to go mean-spirited, you would definitely be able to discern the difference in about three seconds flat.)


    Go back and read, friend.

    Read, and take the time to re-evaluate your nonsensical and overly-defensive attitude.



    Well if you were being kind, then why did it seem like you were agreeing with me one minute and stabbing me in the back the next.....not that i care, i know i'm right when it comes to solid wood and sustain over chambered wood, and if you do have the years of experience like i do then you should know the same as i.

  5. But you're an expert so why would you have damaged it?


    There's a word for those who try to 'educate' others without any request to do so (or the ability in your case).


    Never said i was an " Expert ", i said i knew enough to work on my own guitars, nor do i think that i would've damaged it.


    I simply utilized a warranty and service contract that i paid a lot of money for, and as it turns out, it's a good thing i did.

  6. Macmutt,


    If you don't mind my saying so, sir, you seem to have painted yourself into a corner here.


    You could have started this thread out by stating your opinion in a calm, logical, and objective fashion, and then engaged in a reasonable give and take from then on going forward.

    To wit;

    "Hi fellows. You know, I really prefer the sound of a non-weight relieved Gibson Les Paul. Compared to a weight-relieved LP, I find that the older, original design delivers a more beautiful tone, classic vibe, and (in my opinion), a better sustain. In my heart of hearts, only the older, non-weight-relieved Gibson Les Pauls are true and proper representations of that guitar model. What do you think? Do you agree?"


    BUT NO.

    You came out of the gate with a bull$hit attitude, a debatable hypothesis, and an absurd set of follow-on conclusions.

    "Only the old-school, non-weight-relieved Les Pauls are real Les Pauls, and all of you losers who disagree with me are drooling idiots!"

    "The sustain is superior, hands down."

    "I can tell the difference between weight-relieved and non-weight relieved in a blindfold test, but only under my specific set of conditions, and your conditions are immediately suspect!"


    Worse yet, you:

    * have failed to produce any credible evidence to back up your original claim

    * refuse to offer up any videos of you actually playing your awesome, admittedly-heavy guitars



    * you jink and jive like an elementary-school kid on the dodge-ball court whenever a reasonable request is made of you.


    In short, you are like an old stereo with a record album playing at full volume, and the stylus keeps hitting a deep scratch in the vinyl, going tick-skip, tick-skip, tick-skip.



    Dude, your opinions are your opinions, and they aren't necessarily right or wrong, until the moment that you make such absurd, declarative statements in an effort to support them.

    Oh wait.

    You did exactly that in the very first post of this thread.


    At least i'm not a two faced hypocrite, you came into this forum agreeing with me and understanding my side of things and then when you saw how everyone else was against me, you jumped ship and went on board their band wagon and started preaching from the other side.


    [unsure][crying] :unsure:

  7. So then, you have taken your guitar to a tech to change the tuners but you said earlier you're an expert because you change your own. [lol]


    So full of shite and it's embarrassing that you think you're fooling anyone.


    Here's a thing. If you can pick the weight relieved guitars from 20 (10 of each) while I play single notes and youre blindfold, with just 80% accuracy, I'll give you all 20 guitars. Fail though and you give me $20000. How's that?


    Just so you know. I don't own any weight relieved less Pauls so I'm no cry baby whining about heavy guitar's or someone trying to convince myself my guitar is great. My guitars are great, because I play them though, not because they're solid.



    You cannot be more than 12 or 13. I simply don't believe you. You're clearly a child trolling for fun.


    Believe what you want, but i am 47 years old trying to educate the 15 to 30 year olds of today....and if you read my entire post about going to the guitar tech, you would see that i chose to utilize the free labor coverage in my warranty and take advantage of the sale on the tuners, and it was a good thing i did because if i had damaged it then i would have nothing but a damaged guitar instead of shopping around for new one to replace the one the tech damaged.

  8. lol at solid wood giving a guitar it's sustain...


    Sustain is determined by mechanical resistance. If the where the bridge and tail piece are bolted to the body is solid wood then there is no difference between a weight relieved version or not. Sustain literally has everything to do with the mechanical resistance on the strings, and that is determined by what touches them directly.


    Please Macmutt, enlighten this mechanical engineer on all your scientific theory of sustain. I am dying to hear it.


    Do you know anything about the laws of physics ?, more mass means more sustain, and a solid body guitar has more mass than a chambered guitar, that is indisputable.


    Go get an acoustic guitar, and then go get an electric guitar, plug in the electric to an amp and pluck the same note on both and time the sustain and how long it takes for the note to fizzle out to silence.....the electric will win every single time.


    It's like you trying to dispute which vehicle it would take to stop first, if you had a Honda accord and a 18 wheel tractor trailer going 90-mph, the Honda will always stop first because it has less mass.


    Therefore if you have a solid body 10 pound guitar and a chambered 4 pound guitar, the 10 pounder will always sustain longer.....every single time the larger the mass the more sustain....we live on planet earth you can't change the laws of physics....there is no dispute, i am right !!!!!

  9. Post a video of you playing your solid guitar. Show us all how good it is.


    Don't have it anymore i dropped it off to have the Geforce tuners replaced with klusons while it was still under warranty and the tech accidentally banged the neck up against his workbench and put a nasty ding in the top of the neck right where you slide your thumb over, in retrospect i should've done it myself like i wanted to but the labor was free and the tuners were on sale, plus the sales guy reminded me if i did do it myself and it got damaged it would not have been replaceable, but because i utilized my service contract while it was still under warranty now it's getting replaced for free.


    However thanks to the warranty i received full credit for it, which is why i started looking at the 2017 Traditional T model, but i haven't made up my mind yet, at least i still have my SG to play in the mean time.

  10. I bet you $500 that I can give you a recording of 10 guitars and you can't pick out which one is a modern, routed out Les Paul Standard, which one was a historic reissue and which one was an Ibaneze Road Star.


    Rage on zombie thread. :rolleyes:


    LOL a recording....anything could be made to sound like whatever you want it to sound like by the time you run it through a mixing board, now if your were sitting in the same room with me and i was blind folded and you had each of those guitars plugged directly into a tube amp and you were ringing out a single note and letting it sing out until it stopped.


    Then yes i could tell you which guitar was chambered and which one was solid.

  11. Sir, I am 32 and have read dozens of books and online articles on all types of Gibson, including Les Pauls, maintenance and construction. Now, I'm no luthier like Rabs, but most guys here are very knowledgeable and probably know more than you think you do. A lot of the forum members are much older than me and have vast experience...learn from them.


    Well i'm almost 48 years old and my brother is almost 55 years old..now i've been playing for nearly 30 years and my brother's been playing for over 40 years and although neither one of us are luthiers either, we have nearly every guitar book ever published on Gibson Fender, PRS and more and these aren't just pretty picture books, but books on luthier techniques, which woods are the best, and how much of a difference solid hardwoods and various pickups combos make in a guitar, plus we do all the work on our guitars ourselves, adjustments, replacing strings, buffing, polishing, pick up and tuner replacement, everything.


    So i don't need to ask anyone's opinion on chambered guitars, it's cutting corners to appease the cry babies of today who whine about the guitar being to heavy, i'm mean really ? too heavy, the chambering cuts out just over a pound of wood is that really a back breaking difference ? come on.

  12. "SOLID"... except, of course, for where they are significantly routed out for the 2 pickups (which means 3 pickup Black Beauties must not be real LPs because they have too much wood removed). Or where they are routed out for the wiring or for the pots/rear access or for the toggle switch... those areas of wood that are removed are inconsequential... and still qualify as "SOLID"... but if you remove one more bit of wood after that... total crap!!!!!!!! [blink]???????


    Some people.... [rolleyes]


    Are you serious ? Nobody is talking about the electronic chambers...those are routered out because electronics, pickups, pots, wiring and switches are placed in those routered holes.


    Holes routered out just for the sake of making an instrument lighter is in my opinion retarded and detracts from the original sound that made the Les Paul what it is today......thats the argument.

  13. Really You think..

    Disagree with you


    wonder why??


    I can tell you why...because most players in here are all of 25 years or younger and don't know jack about guitar construction, they see a pretty flame top and hear some hot pick ups, so their convinced it's the real deal.


    If they bothered to educate themselves then they would realize it's also SOLID hardwood that contributes to the meaty sustain of the guitar, which is why a lot of the older guy's like myself would put up a late 50's Les Paul against any of the hallowed out pieces of crap they make today.


    Don't come in here all pissed off at me because you spent three grand on a Les Paul and you feel the need to justify it after you found out that most of the wood has been routered out.


    You should've just done more research and selected your instrument more carefully.....it's not my fault.

  14. WOW !!! i don't think i've ever had such a popular topic, now if only the majority of replies i received agreed with me instead of disagreed....Then i would really be proud.


    Oh well, just to add a little tid bit to this post and sort of update it...i have seen the 2017 Les Paul line up and to no surprise i'm interested in the 2017 Traditional T Model.....with NO weight relief, NO Geforce tuning, and NO coil tapping.....Just the original solid body mahogany & maple Les Paul with burst buckers, kluson tuners, rosewood fretboard.


    As it's meant to be, this new " ULTRA " modern weight relief thats advertised in the new Les Paul Standard...LOL...i don't even want to know about it, because i'm sure they found a way to remove even more wood.


    Gibson won't be happy until the damn thing is transparent, but at least they offer the true tradiotanlist's like myself the option of buying an original specced Les Paul the way they were and should always be made.

  15. Nice! I didn't know they were available yet. Most dealers are stating October arrivals.


    Got an advert email showing the 2017 Gibson's from my local Sam Ash store and then checked their website and the ebony SG standard showed in stock, so i immediately went to down to the store and ordered it.

    It arrived Friday...and it is Gorgeous.

  16. Well i've said my piece, you guy's can continue to go on debating, ridiculing, insulting or picking apart my guitar or other comments i made.


    Enjoy yourselves, and i genuinely hope each one of you is happy with what ever guitars you own.


    The important thing to remember is we all love playing guitars, and that should give us enough common ground to be civil to one another at the very least.


    It's been fun, take care all.

  17. Wish i had the room to store multiple guitars...and amps for that matter, but my simple set up consists of my Les Paul, my amp and my pedal board, and thats all......but to your question, Buying Les Pauls is probably one of the best addictions to have.

  18. Just looks like a darker part of the grain to me, it's not flawlessly picked wood pieces every time i guess, but if you ask me i think it makes it special, and your own personal mark of distinction.


    I almost prefer some kind of flaw in my guitars, since i consider them an extension of myself, and god knows i'm far from perfect as well so it kind of makes you have a closer bond with your instrument if you get my drift.

  19. What is the best way to keep a Les Paul? In the case except when playing it, or in the rack with all the other guitars ready to pick up at a moments notice.


    I find that I am more likely to play it if I can just reach and get it than if I have to pull it out of the case when I want to play. Is it good or bad to keep it out in the open air all the time?


    I personally treat mine like a fine wine and i keep it locked in it's case until it's time to play, plus i don't want to expose it to overly humid temps.

    Not to mention i don't have a music room to speak of, so i take it out and play in my living room when the wife and kids go out for the day.

  20. And so now we know why mankind will never, ever be able to live in peace.


    And why there are always right around 3 or more major wars are being waged at any one time on this earth.



    They are war-starters.





    I whole heartedly agree, except i'm not trying to impose my beliefs on anyone, if people are happy with what they have thats great, i was just trying to get through to those who might agree and those at Gibson to stop changing what doesn't need to be changed, but obviously i'm the only one who believes that the body should remain solid.

  • Create New...