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A friend of mine once said, "The pro of J-160E is: it has the signature sound of The Beatles. And the con of J-160E is: it has nothing but the signature sound of The Beatles." lol if I remembered correctly, Lennon moved the P-90 to the lower part of the sound hole at one point and moved it back to the original location later. I thought he was using Monel strings and picked very close to the bridge. Casino and 6120 are both handsome guitars, too. If I were to do The Beatles things, I probably prefer these these over J-160E. I've played these two gears only once in my life, but I've seen a few tribute/cover bands that roared out some great rocking tone out of them. I remember being very impressed.

Thank you for your comment. I agree with you for the most part. It's nonsensical to diachronically compare all variations. That's why I only wanted to narrow it down to the current versions in the standard lineups. If we started comparing Custom Shop, Limited Editions, and the actual vintage gears, etc., getting solid answers would be impossible.. One thing Gibson is consistent about is being inconsistent... This is why I owned at least three, up to seven J-45s when I owned them. They were hand-picked in person and were all decent, but they all sounded vastly different, too. It's ridiculous if you think about it. If you lined up some 2022 Ford F-150, and 3 out of 10 looked and worked like 2018 Focus, people would never trust their products. But guitars being luxury items made of wood, and Gibson being so iconic, and most because we love the "Gibson sound," they (kind of) get to pull it off. I'm a "guitar player," and ultimately, none of these details matter. As a player, only things that matter are sound and playability. Let's say, if I wanted a Southern Jumbo with bridge section like J-45, instead of asking around online what the differences are, I rather hit the Gibson Customs Shop and custom-order a Southern Jumbo like that. But that's not really purpose here. I have come to notice that quite a few people reading guitar-related forums are luthiers and their apprentices, and hobbyist guitar makers. We always discuss guitars in players' perspectives, but rarely from the perspective of people that want to make guitars. Not every difference noticeably affects sound, but to those who are learning, every detail matters. They want to know so they can sleep at night--and so do I lol Also, Gibson and Martin purchases are prone to paying for counterfeit. Knowing about minor features that seem unimportant might save someone from getting burned. Slash made his career out of copy models, but few of us are as lucky... I believe a lot of us are here because we want more information beyond the "player basics"--so let's make it and keep it that way lol Share, learn, and let the forum be the educational platform for everyone.

Thank you for your reply and also taking your time to post great photos for references. I'm also absolutely blown away by (appears to be only a part of) your guitar collections. I was checking other store websites for different photos and was starting to think the they are both flush to the sound hole edge...

The Beatles had talent, top-of-the-line engineers, and George Martin. If they can't make J-160E work, none of us can lol The solid spruce top is a whole new game changer, and it sounds like you don't experience any feedback problems as Gibson anticipated. If that is the case, J-160E could have been a staple gear among guitarists if it was made with the solid top. You really got lucky with your J-160E!!

Thank you for your reply. All manufacturers during WWII had to use whatever materials available to keep producing their goods. Saying, "Gibson slacked off and skimped on material choices" would be unfair. Saying, "Specs were all over the place" only states the facts.

Now, that is a fine looking County Western!! I love the inlays. I might even do something similar on my SJ with the truss rod cover... that's hot.... D-28 and HD-28V are different animals. D-28 is a canon with that famous "Banjo Killer" projection-- straight-bracing with the infinite headroom. HD-28V sounds just massive. The crushing bass and volume are too much in many occasions. It's an attractive guitar with lots of tone, but unless you are Robert Plant or something, that thing overpowers most singers out there. It hurts my eardrums when I lean over to the front of the guitar. Gibson acoustics, on the other hand, sound a lot more cooperative in general... Martins are still fun to dig in and make them roar. My neighbors might not be too happy, though lol

Thank you for your reply. I'm hoping to gather as many people that are interested in J-45/Southern Jumbo here and exchange information. Three members already chipped in details that I didn't even notice for before, and I'm really feeling the power of collective information exchange. This is amazing!! Why didn't I start this sooner? Another member has mentioned that the bridge placement might be different, and comparing with other details, I'm starting to believe this might be the case, but I don't know.... I can only speculate until bridge locations are physically measured and compared. I purchased a brand new Southern Jumbo last year (2020 Original Collection line). After comparing it with a few new and used J-45s and other used Southern Jumbos, my take is that "J-45 and Southern Jumbo are more alike than different, but the difference between the two are consistently the same." They are similar enough to make backup guitars for each other, but they can also be switched around to emphasize the different colors in songs/tunes. I love them both. I could have purchased J-45 instead, but my Southern Jumbo happens to have the greatest neck for my hand, and it sounds the way I like.

Thank you sir. I hope to check this forum more often since I have an account now.

Thank you for your reply. When I purchased D-28 for the first time, I spent two months comparing it with D-35 at a local shop. Deciding on only one was painful. I almost bought the D-35, and changed my mind at the last minute. I still think about it time to time. D-35 is a phenomenal guitar of a great pedigree. It's that 1/4-inch bracing on a dread body... It sings so much even with lighter touch. Lightnin' Hopkins is one of my all time favorite bluesmen, and I would never rule out J-160E. But If I were to buy a J-160E, I would never buy brand new because the used market is littered with abandoned near-mint axes with much lower price. You absolutely right that J-160E often takes a lot of sh*t beyond its truthful merit/demerit. But J-160E is definitely not as bad as its reputations. Most people buy J-160E because of The Beatles. Obviously, it's the "correct gear" for that signature sound. If I were fascinated by the Fab Four, J-160E would be my first choice, too. When J-160E came out, there was no piezo system, so the only option was to use P-90. But using a P-90 makes the guitar prone to feedback, so Gibson had to use plywood top in compensation. Like Takamine, it's not designed to be played acoustically. What Gibson did wrong was its naming. If J-160E was named "ES-160 or ES-160E" consumers might have viewed it more as a kin to hollow-body archtops. Call it "J-XX" and people assume it is a J-45 with a pick-up. Many J-160Es are measured against great expectations, get disappointed with, and let go of within a year or two, unfortunately. But think about it--Lennon played J-160E, Harrison also played J-160E, SJ-200, and McCartney played J-180. They were all "singers first," and all of them chose models that are rather boxy sounding (even though, they all loved D-28, too). Guitars that aren't "divas" work great for singers. J-45/50/Southern Jumbo/Hummingbird, etc. have one foot in the same coffin as J-160E. They aren't overtone monsters, either. If guitars are solely judged for tone and sustain, probably Martins sound "objectively better" than Gibsons on average. But they work. Gibson acoustics work great, and we love them.

Thank you for your reply. One of the reasons why I decided to sign up and start a thread for the first time in my life is to consolidate as much information I learned into one thread as possible. I wanted other people to find out what I learned within 10 minutes, instead of spending 6 months on research. I want young players to go back playing to be rock stars; young luthiers to go back to making/designing our future dream guitars. At the same time, I wanted to find out about things I was wondering about for years. I was reading threads after threads, research after research for months. I wanted to address them directly instead of wasting any more time. By the way, I also own D-28, HD-28V, and OM-42, so I'm not 100% biased towards Gibson slope shoulders. (But if I have to pick only one for my escape from the zombie apocalypses, I pick a J-45/Southern Jumbo--24-3/4 scale, mahogany jumbo, always).

Thank you for your reply. J-45 originally had the rectangular bridge and eventually switched to "belly up bridge," but it never had the "belly down" in regular production as far as I am aware of; whereas, the old Southern Jumbo specs were all over. Specs are all over back then, and they aren't even braced the same way as today's. That's why I dropped the links for the current lineup as the samples. I'm strictly comparing the current "off the rack" lines. No Custom Shop lines and special editions involved.

Thank you for your reply, and as you said, J-45 bridge looks "vertically wider. Probably I'd have to physically compare actual guitars to see if it is as "gauging" it online don't do any good. I'll have to wait at least until the next year to be able to afford a J-45, though. I have been hoping to come across someone that own both. However, I highly disagree with "if the guitar sounds good, just play and forget about everything else" attitude. Then I ask you this—As long as the guitar sounds good, am I supposed to let go of the engineering curiosity and the pursuit for knowledge?? Forums and social media are full of remarks as yours. So much so, that this type of comment is now a cliche. Most of the time, such people are in hope for appearing to be the "one talking the most sense here," but in reality, they make absolutely ZERO contributions to the community and the advancement of the field. This kind of comment is a type of unsolicited narcissism nobody is looking for. Nobody learns absolutely anything at all from the cliche comment. I have been playing guitar for 26 years, have read many forums over the years, but I have never commented or even create an account for any. I decided to do so this time, only because I thought that doing so might help "debunk the myth" or discover additional details related to J-45 and Southern Jumbo, and other people can learn something. I myself learned years ago that Southern Jumbo has pins closer to the saddle, from reading a forum thread. The internet search helped me pick out my Southern Jumbo last year. Search results on Google are hugely dependent on collective responsibilities these days. For the betterment of forum and the exchange of knowledge, I hope you refrain from dropping such a remark in the future. At least, you pointed out about the "vertical width" of the bridge, and I really appreciate your input because it was a detail that I failed to catch. Thanks again.

Thank you for your reply. This is the only legit answer I got here so far. I have noticed that fretboard sticks out a little further on Southern Jumbo, so it might be the case that the Southern Jumbo bridge is placed further away from the sound hole. My Southern Jumbo and the one on the posted link looks exactly the same. This might be the reason why, despite the saddle being closer to the sound hole, the the scale length remains the same as J-45. Thank you again for your input.

Hi everyone. I'm new on this forum, and this is my first post here. I hope someone can clarify things with J-45 and Southern Jumbo. A) Both J-45 and Southern Jumbo have 24-3/4” scale length. B) Both J-45 and Southern Jumbo have the neck jointed at 14th fret. C) On J-45, bridges pins are located as far back on the bridge as possible. D) On Southern Jumbo, bridge pins are in the middle of the bridge. E) However, the saddle on Southern Jumbo is located slightly closer to the sound hole, too. F) The end of the fretboard for Southern Jumbo extends right to the edge of the sound hole G) The end of the fretboard for J-45 leaves a little space to the edge of the sound hole J-45 Gibson 2018 J-45 Standard Acoustic-Electric Guitar Vintage Sunburst | Musician's Friend (musiciansfriend.com) Southern Jumbo Gibson 2018 Southern Jumbo Acoustic-Electric Guitar Vintage Sunburst | Musician's Friend (musiciansfriend.com) Southern Jumbo should have shorter scale length if the saddle is closer to the sound hole, but it doesn’t. Southern Jumbo should have the neck joint at the 15th fret (or 14-1/2 fret at least), like J-160E, to extend the neck, but it doesn’t seem so. What construction differences allow Southern Jumbo to feature A), B), and E) simultaneously? Does Southern Jumbo have a slightly longer neck and appear 1/16th of an inch taller than J-45 if these two guitars are placed standing side by side? Do these two have different neck joint? **I used to own three to four J-45s of different characteristics and was periodically swapping out one or two with different J-45s for 10 years until a major financial setback forced me to sell them all. I currently own Southern Jumbo Original Collection from the 2020 catalogue, but I do not own any J-45s to make any physical comparisons. Thank you all for your help.