Gman! I live near Boston:) Anyway, thank you for the info. I was looking for something other than the 3 on plate versions. I like these: https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/tuning-machines/solid-peghead-guitar-tuning-machines/grover-vintage-135-series-33-tuners but they're 14:1 ratio. I just don't understand why Grover, Gotoh, etc...don't make any versions like these with the higher ratio. I may not have a choice.