Vic Flick
-
Posts
1,501 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by Vic Flick
-
-
Hello!
My name is Stefano' date=' from Italy, i found precious information in this topic., but i need your help
I'm after a beautiful Epiphone Sheraton with a rare wine red finish,
the seller told me the guitar was made in Japan in 1984, its serial is
4053802
But using guitar date project i found the guitar was made in Korea(not in Japan) in 1994 (not in 1984)
So, anyone can help me identifying this guitar? According to you, which is the right value for the guitar (the hardshell is included)?
Thanks for all the answer and sorry for my bad english
Stefano[/quote']
The Guitar Dater is limited in what it can do, and it is not programmed to recognize Japanese guitars. If often mistakes them for later Korean models.
You don't include any photos, but the serial # is correct for a 1984 Sheraton made in Japan by Matsumoku. In fact, it was made in May 1984 to be exact. You have a great guitar.
The label inside the f hole should look like this:
Yours will say Sheraton WR (Wine Red) instead of Sheraton AS (Antique Sunburst)
Welcome to the camp
Gennaro Acritelli
-
-
I've been wanting a Casino but after I discovered that they're made out of plywood I feel a bit disappointed. It just doesn't seem very classy. Why do they make them out of plywood? What are the pros and cons of making a guitar out of plywood? What were the ES-330s made out of?
It's technically plywood, but not like you would buy in Home Depot. It's made of thin pieces of hardwood, same way the vintage ones were made. Same as Gibsons like the ES-335. Guild Starfires. Gretsch Nashvilles & Country Gents. Most thin lines will have a laminate body although some top of the line hollow body guitars like the L5 or Gretsch Country Club might have a solid spruce top. So don't be disappointed, some of the greatest guitars ever made had plywood bodies.
-
1
-
-
I was just looking through the Wiki article on the S-series over at http://epi.p3net.net/wiki/index.php/S-400 and while going through the information there I think I may have figured out a bit more possibly. My Epiphone has a 21 fret fretboard but it looks like most of the ones from the later part of the 80's had 22 frets' date=' but the information appears to be a bit conflicting as to what was offered. I was wondering if the price list showed any offering as to fret count? I wonder if that would help date it. but like jerrymac mentioned it very well may have been a special order so who knows.
Thanks again for helping me out,
Jind[/quote']
I thought I did a pretty good job pinning down the year for you. They were only made for approximately 3 years, and it really doesn't make a difference if it's an '86 or an '88. It is what it is, and the best evidence is the headstock. If it were an early one, the headstock would look like the one Shelia posted:
Yours has the non pointy end and does not say by Gibson. That dates it to 1989 (approximately), making it one of the last S-400s made. You're lucky, they were discontinued in 1989 (according to Blue Book), so knowing the headstock changed just as the guitar ended it's run narrows the time span. But once again, what difference does it make??? Maybe the body was made in 1986, the neck in 1988, and it was assembled in 1989!!! It is what it is.
RobinTheHood was right when he said, "...wiki's info isnt really conflicting. It is just incomplete/innacurate." What you've got to realize is that this is not an exact science. People share resources, make observations, draw conclusions. Sometimes it's not 100% correct. So treat it as a guide more than Gospel fact.
-
As noted in the original post' date=' the serial number comes up as manufactured in 1985 - would that be for the 1986 market? So I guess the question is, is a 1986 model that happened to be built in 1985? Or is it a 1985 with the upgrades and was it even available as an option or model in 1985?
I really appreciate all the help - thank you once again,
Jind
[/quote']
The serial # decoder is not always accurate, especially with pre 92 models. Even though some models of Epiphones were made in Korea before 1986, it wasn't until the new owners of Gibson took over in January 1986 that the new models started production. As Robin the Hood stated, this series began production in 1986 by all accounts.
The earliest S series guitars had pointy Jackson style headstocks with an Epiphone by Gibson logo. In 1988, the headstock was rounded off and the by Gibson was dropped in 1989. So based on that info, and the assumption that your guitar in an S-400, I would place the date as a late 1988 or early 1989 ('88 was officially the last year of the S-400). Since it had the Kahler, I'm going to guess it was a special order that wasn't filled until the new logos were available making it one of the last S-400s made.
-
Look at the logo on the headstock. Never seen anything like it on a S-series strat. I was under the assumption that the S-series started in 1986...the oldest I've ever found on the net including reviews and the like.
From the info I've gathered' date=' everything below the S-500 had vintage-style trems. The 500 & up had the better trem systems plus the shark fin inlays on the fingerboard. We know its not a 310, and the 400 was said to have traditional strat appointments, which I would assume includes the bridge. Of all the S-series guitars, I've never actually seen a 400, so I suppose it could be that - with the upgraded bridge. It has the typical sparkle paint like the S-series had.
But that logo is quite perplexing.
I've never seen one quite like it. You got me stumped.
My only conclusion would be: its definately not a 310 and the inlays & lack of allen key holder tells me its not a 500. Its got to be a 400.
Still curious about the headstock logo.[/quote']
According to Walter Carter's book, the 1986 price list shows all the S series with a base price which includes the standard trem. The Bennder vibrola (usually found on the 400 & up) was and additional $30 (chrome) or $50 (black). As I noted before, the Kahler was an additional $80 (chrome) or $100 (black). I believe your correct, the guitar in question appears to be an S-400 with the Kahler upgrade.
-
So a recent conversation on another forum reminded me of a guitar that I have literally had in the back of my closet for probably 15 years. It's been in a case' date=' unused, and quite franky it's one of those things that I honestly can't remember how I came to possess. I had a serious medical issue several years back and my memory is not what it used to be. I think it may have been a friends that quit playing and asked me if I wanted it - but I could be wrong.
Anyways - like many other posts here it is one of those 80's Epiphone strat models that people have issues identifying, but this one is a bit different from all the others that I've found when searching for information on it. I've seen lots of people with S series or PRO series - I've seen images of a lot with standard strat type tremolo units and some with the Floyd rose II or Schaller units as well, but this one has a factory installed Kahler Flyer bridge - it clearly is a Kahler tremolo, not a pseudo copy. It has a H/S/S configuration and the headstock simply says "Epiphone' with no truss rod cover. I looked under the pickguard and it has all original components (it needs some work as the pots are extremely scratchy and the switch has dropouts) - the serial number lookup indicates that it was manufactured in Korea in 1985, but I truly have no idea beyond that quick lookup.
As I said - I've seen a bunch of Epiphone strats, but never one with a Kahler Flyer that was factory installed. Any assistance would be appreciated.
Pix Deleted
Any assistance would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Jind[/quote']
In the 1986 price list, Kahlers were available as an option on the S series guitars for an additional $80 in chrome or $100 in black.
-
So tomorrows the day huh Joe? Bet ya can't wait. I hope shes a good one!
Jerry Mac- Which one are you thinking is a prototype? The strange E posted or the one you had with a cursive e?
The strange by Gibson one.
OK if I have got it right these 1986-88 guitars with the E-by G are the earliest made in Korea.........The factory before was in Japan.....Matsumoku factory........ The font used by Matsumoku was similar to one used back to 1930's. The in 1986 there is change to denote the break from Japan to Korea production......There were some Korean made Epis prior to 1986' date=' I think 1983 was the first ones, but they were not impressive. In was in 1986 that the new owners decided to revive the brand (see my last post) and bring back the Sheraton. The first Korean Sherrys had the [i']by Gibson[/i], and at that time, Matsumoku was still making them in Japan for the Japanese market. Matsumoku closed down in 1988, coincidentally about the same time they dropped by Gibson from the headstock. Terada and FujiGen took over the manufacturing in Japan for the Japanese market, and those guitars evolved into the Orvilles and Epiphone Japan lines, then eventually the Elitist.
-
Astounding........still only have 2 proven owners of "Epiphone by Gibson" Sheratons on this forum.
Joe' date=' one thing to consider is that Epiphone was a dying company in 1986, they didn't sell a whole lot of guitars at that time. In fact, Epiphone had less than $1 million revenue in 1985. It was January 1986 that Juszkiewicz, Berryman & Zebrowski purchased Gibson and decided to revamp the Epiphone line. And even though Epiphone grew at a good rate in those first few years, there were production problems (fire, flood, labor problems) that made it difficult to maintain a steady flow of instruments. So there might not be as many of those [i']Epiphone by Gibson[/i] as you might think.
-
![[laugh]](//content.invisioncic.com/p286412/emoticons/default_msp_laugh.gif)
That truss rod cover with the epi "e" looks legit' date='
But a Capital E in Epiphone,
[img']http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5769/capev.jpg[/img]
Haven't ever seen that b4, really caught my eye.
Epiphone used a cursive E going back to the 1930s:
In fact, I had a 1982 Emperor (Matsumoku) that had the cursive E:
The original late '80s Korean Samicks were similar to Matsumokus, so it's not surprising that they originally adopted the cursive E. But I will say, that's the first one I've seen, it must be one of the first ones made. Maybe even a prototype.
As a side point, the story I heard is that the by Gibson was added to the Samicks to easily distinguish them from the Matsumokus.
-
JM wanna weigh in?
I think we should just scrape the whole idea and mount a Floyd on it!!! Just kiddin'
I originally had a similar idea, I was thinking of using the threads on a TonePros to mount a tension bar. But what concerns me is the size. The tension bar will have to withstand a lot of upward force, so the bar & bracket will have to be fairly heavy duty. Can you design something small enough to mount to the bridge yet strong enough to not to give under pressure. And although the mod I suggested would involve two small holes, it would be strong and pretty unobtrusive. Hanging a bar off the bridge would involve using a non original bridge, plus it's going look like it's been modded, even if it is reversible. If it's done right, I don't think many people will realize that a tension bar has been added to the vibrola, but everyone will spot a bar hanging off the bridge.
Having said all that, I would suggest that he bring it to a skilled tech, and run the ideas past him.
-
Thank you guys for taking some time to think about this little problem.
Jerrymac> Honestly' date=' after some bigsby study, I thought of something just like that too.
There's an empty room at the bottom of the tremotone fixed base, and I thought I just might add an "omega" bar*. I've finally left the idea because I can not figure out how to find such a device. What you suggest is a little different and sounds pretty neat.
PS>I never heard of MATTHIAS STURM, but I'm listening to his myspace songs right now, and it's excellent! for some reason it reminds me of a Dutch band called Daryll Ann.
[img']http://geraldparel.free.fr/wp-content/photos/wilshire/vibrola%20Empty%20Square%20Space%20copy.jpg[/img]
Musikron> I think I don't understand your solution! (lack of imagination?
) - But I swear I want to! (I'm always very sensible to the TOTALLY REVERSIBLE side of your suggestion)Could you explain it differently - so a french guy that learnt english with comics books and google could understand?:)
I think you, me & Musikron agree on the concept, it's just figuring out the best way to do it. Your Omega Bar idea is great, I wonder how expensive it would be to have a shop make one for you.
I was thinking of my idea, I thought of a way you could do it without drilling the holes all the way through the metal. Just drill the hole on the inside and spring load one side.
You would push the bar in the hole with the spring, align it with the hole on the other side, then the spring will pop it into the other side. That way you wouldn't even see holes. (I hope I was able to explain that OK for you).
About Matthais Sturm, if you looked at his pictures on MySpace, you'll see him playing a 1968 Cherry Red Gibson ES-330. I sold him that guitar. I don't know how popular he is, but he told me he does play in the USA on occasion, and said I should see go him play the next time he's in Los Angeles.
And thanks for checking out my SoundClick. I'm going to check your links tonight.
-
Finally got an answer from Mr DAGUET.
It is nearly impossible to flip the swivel bar... without losing the system for good. For the record' date=' the cylindrical bar that pass through the swivel stop tail and the whole fixed part also acts as a spring. And btw, removing the 2 pins means killing them definitely, because it's probably too old and oxidized.
He suggests to drill notches in the stop tail at the opposite side instead of flipping it, or, live with it. ;)[/quote']
I thought about this, and I figured out a solution - a tension bar like they use on Bigsbys. I drew a white line on one of your pictures to show you what I'm thinking:
The strings would pass under the bar and thereby increasing the angle to the bridge. I was thinking a piece of a Fender trem arm would work pretty good.
The problem is how you would mount it. I know you don't want to alter the original unit, but this is what I would do - a small hole on each side of the unit and just slide the bar in. It would probably look better than turning the swivel bar upside down, plus you would keep it fully functional. In fact, I would say that it's less of a modification than flipping the swivel bar.
Maybe a good tech could come up with an alternative method to mount the bar, maybe using the front screw to secure some hind of mount to hold the bar. But a tension bar will do it for you.
Musikron, any thoughts???
Good luck Cosmo
PS - Have you heard of a French / German performer named MATTHIAS STURM???
-
Is that a white one JM?
I almost traded my Tele for a white one at a show about 18 months ago. The lead guitarist in another band and I were drooling over each others guitars. But it had no case and thus was pretty rough. Which normally don't bother me but I mean this poor thing was hurt.
I still want white one one day.
Yep' date=' I've actually had two different white ones come my way over the years. I'd like to get a Samick Sherry again some day, white would be my preference. But to make Joe happy, I'll get a Sunburst with the [i']by Gibson[/i] on the headstock. I don't think they made the white ones until the '90s.
-
6' date='006 registered members on this forum and this thread has had 162 views and to date the list of owners of Sheratons with the "Epiphone by Gibson" headstock is two people
Musikron
JoeSamick
come on there must be more people out there who have this headstock on their Sherri's
[/quote']
I've owned other Samick Sherry's, like this one:
Now ain't she purdy??? Just didn't have by Gibson.
-
-
So my questions to all owners of "Epiphone by Gibson" headstock Sheratons..
Do your serial stickers look like the one in the photo below?
Do you have an 8 digit serial?
The TRC is plain black on the one I am buying did they come like that?
Last question which I suspect
should this mean
My guitar was made in
Korea
January c.1987
Production Number: 05418
Joe' date='
The problem is most of the stickers with the serial #s have been removed, like the one I had years ago. But yes, that's what the stickers looked like, and the early number were random.
[img']http://home.earthlink.net/~jkmcleer/Guitars/epi%20sheraton%20back%20neck.jpg[/img]
-
Jerrymac - thanks for the thumbs up
but' date=' I actually did it because I really wanted that Gibson LP so to me the Epiphone is a bit of fakery of sorts.[/quote']
Since Les Paul did endorse the Epiphone LPs, I would say it's as legit as a Gibson Chet Atkins Country Gentleman. It's more legit IMO than the original SGs that bore Les Paul's name until he asked that it be removed. I got my first LP in the early '70s, a Goldtop Deluxe, had a Custom in the late '70s, and this '70s Deluxe I refurbished a few years ago:
Someone had spray painted it black glitter, and did a real piss poor job of it. I originally put P-90s on it, but then decided to go with vintage Bill Lawrence mini humbuckers. But I digress. I've also owned a few Epiphone LPs throughout the years, and they pretty much hold their own especially if you do some upgrading. A set of good pickups that fit your style, a quality bridge and tailpiece (Gotoh will do nicely).
I understand the desire to own a genuine Gibson, and I hope that when you get it, it's everything you hope for. But don't be surprised if you eventually realize that it really wasn't worth the money and that you're old Epi Phoney was just fine. The way to truly impress people is with your playing, not the name on the headstock.
Good luck, and play the hell out of that Epi...
-
I posted on this subject in another thread - "How to really spot a counterfeit Epiphone" where I discussed how I believe that my EP/LP is probably a China fake.
Someone in that thread mentioned that on the Sweetwater's guitar gallery you can see examples of what the Serial Number should look like. I looked up the Epiphone Standard to check the serial number where I found that the serial number on the site showed the following format: 0906230698 (with tight justification) and my guitar looks like this: E E 0 5 1 0 6 3 1 7 (with wide justification). [For those not in the know: justification = space between characters]
Someone responded to my post with the following:
Epiphone changed their serial # pattern in 2008. Yours is just the older format' date=' EE indicates the Epiphone factory in QingDao (China). It was made in October 2005 (05 is the year' date=' 10 is the month, 6317 the production #). You can remove the Rub-a-dub marker and proudly display the Epiphone logo on your case.[/quote'']Someone else stated:
+1.Which I didn't understand.
My headstock has a Les Paul sig in the place where talks about: #2 - The opposite direction : Custom split diamond inlay.
So what does that mean - my guitar is' date=' or is not a CHINA FAKE?
[/quote']
MrBlimp, Les Paul Customs have the diamond inlay, Standards have signatures. I hate to disappoint you, but so far nothing you've said indicates yours is a fake.
+1 is a way of expressing agreement.
-
So then I went to the Sweetwater's guitar gallery and looked up the Epiphone Standard to check the serial number where I found that the serial number on the site showed the following format: 0906230698 (with tight justification) and my guitar looks like this: E E 0 5 1 0 6 3 1 7 (with wide justification). [For those not in the know: justification = space between characters]
OK' date=' so that leds me to believe mine is a fake...[/quote']
Epiphone changed their serial # pattern in 2008. Yours is just the older format, EE indicates the Epiphone factory in QingDao (China). It was made in October 2005 (05 is the year, 10 is the month, 6317 the production #). You can remove the Rub-a-dub marker and proudly display the Epiphone logo on your case.
-
As far as the stickers go' date=' well that CE sticker shows up on all sorts of things, so I'm thinking it has something to do with Customs and Excise?? Feel free to correct me as I truly do not know for sure. [/quote']
I believe CE stickers are applied to electronic equipment to indicate it meets certain requirements, much like the UL stickers here in the States.
-
I would imagine that there are lots of Fenders out there with a piece of guitar pick used as a shim (LOL).
I cut up an old credit card, just about the right width for the pocket.
-
It won't let me vote twice' date=' Jerrymac. I voted for Dot because my Dot Studio was my first EE and I've now also got my Alpine White Limited Edition SG. BTW, did you get one of these when M123 screwed up the price?
[/quote']
Since I don't have an EE, I voted SG for you.
-
It won't let me vote twice' date=' Jerrymac. I voted for Dot because my Dot Studio was my first EE and I've now also got my Alpine White Limited Edition SG. BTW, did you get one of these when M123 screwed up the price?
[/quote']
I ordered one, but they backed out. Said they ran out of stock. Never even had the decency to email me. I called them a over week later, that's when I found out.
![[laugh]](http://content.invisioncic.com/p286412/emoticons/default_msp_laugh.gif)
) - But I swear I want to! (I'm always very sensible to the TOTALLY REVERSIBLE side of your suggestion)
Know anything about this Samick Les Paul Custom?
in Epiphone Electrics
Posted
Yes, Samick made Epiphone Les Pauls in the late '80s into the '90s. Around 1993, Epiphone expanded and used several manufactures in Korea. Samick presently runs a large factory in Indonesia, and still makes some guitars for Epiphone (as far as I know).
Samick stopped using the Samick brand around 1999 at which time they adopted the Greg Bennett brand name. So this guitar would be pre-1999, and judging by the general appearance, I would guess early '90s. Specifically, the tuners look like the tuners found on the early Samick made Epiphones.
Samicks are well made guitars, $250 seems like a good price. Nice find, you'd pay more for the Epiphone equivalent.
Good luck & enjoy the guitar.