New guy buying Barney Kessel - need help!

[grundig]

Hi, hope somebody out there can give me some advice and suggestions. I'm contemplating buying a 1965 (or 1966 if Gibson is right in their serial number search) Barney Kessel regular model. Everything seems a go, but it's a lot of money (at least to me) and I find myself double guessing myself. A few questions . . .

1. I had the vendor send me a picture of the back of the pickups; they're patent number pickups (Gibson had just switched to Chrome covers in 1965) and hopefully are non T tops. I'm going to try to have my son attach the picture, but if not, bear with me. There seems to be some rust coloured tarnish around the solder welds, which look unbroken, as if the covers have never been off. Is that rust coloured "tarnish" anything to be concerned about?

2. I went to see a Barney Kessel once that had the bridge cranked way high and even then still barely had the strings clear the fingerboard. I guess that's caused by a sunken arch, which seems like big trouble. Another BK I looked at had the bridge hardly raised at all. The guitar that I'm interested in seems to show about 1/8" or a bit more of thread below the ABR1 steel bridge (see picture, attached I hope); think that's OK??

3. The guitar seems to be in good shape having not been used much, according to the vendor. Yet he mentions to me that the frets are "low" (see picture). He said there are no dead notes, a bit of buzzing on some notes because he likes low action. No divots, just low frets. Does that sound right on a guitar that had little use? Anybody know if the BK's were "low" to begin with?

4. Anything else I should be aware of when buying an old guitar? Should I make sure, for example, that the truss rod moves before buying?

 

Thanks very much you guys, I know this is kind of pushing my luck with a first post. Hopefully somebody has a bit of time to help me; I should act on this guitar quickly. Thanks, Fred

 

[cdntac]

Is this from the store on Kingston Road near Markham Road in Toronto? I saw a BK there a few months ago while in Toronto. Didn't play it but it looked nice.

 

Those pics make it appear that what can be seen is in good shape.

 

As always, the best way to find out is to play it. On old guitars I crank up an amp and adjust the volume and tone knobs and also toggle the pickup switch back and forth (ala Ace Frehley) to ensure that everything is working good inside.

[sok66]

Like the '60s Tal Farlow, a Barney is essentially the old standard scale ES350 with humbuckers, double florentine cutaway, larger peghead and different detailing. Tone is great on good ones, similar to an ES175. I think they're cool as can be, but the styling puts some people off. Can't tell much from your pictures, but if it's in good shape cosmetically with no hacks and plays good it's a safe bet.

 

Wouldn't worry about the "tarnish", looks like solder rosin, the covers look original and untouched. (BTW, on that style guitar "T-Tops" are great). Gibson's neck angle variability in that era can be the reason why you've seen the different bridge heights. If it isn't cranked all the way out and the action's still too low, or vice versa, you're ok. Frets may have ben dressed, which will explain the "low" comment. You'd have to take a real close look at them to see if they've been replaced, etc. Many of that era's jazz guitars were set up with what we'd call today very low action, as they were played with heavy gauge, often flat wound strings.

 

I'd want to play it and examine it very closely before purchase. If you're doing the transaction over the web, etc. make sure you have return privileges in case there's a problem. If all things are cool with the guitar I'd say go for it, in my book Barneys are just too cool! From my days in music retail we ordered and sold a number of the Customs and Standards, owners always loved them. Definitely not your average jazz box!

[grundig]

Cdntac and Sok66, you guys are right on the money with your comments.

 

Cdntac, it's a small world - this is not the 1966 BK that is at the music shop on Kingston in Toronto. I saw that one several months ago (I think he still has it) and it was dead mint in condition but had a hefty $5600 Cdn. price tag on it at that time, which is well over $6000 with tax. Too rich for me. Aside from that as our Canadian dollar has become stronger (currently about 95 cents US), it opens up the American market moreso to us. But it is the guitar that got me hooked on BK's; it fit me and my hands like a glove. I think your suggestion to play the guitar is just plain good advice, but probably won't happen because of the long distance nature. And since it's a private transaction, returning it is likely not a real option. It really is kind of risky, isn't it?

 

Sok66, would it be obvious from the pictures of the pickup if the solder joints had been broken and the covers removed? Could they have been tampered with and then resoldered? Interesting comments about the neck angle variability - I guess what you want ultimately is the right action with a little bridge adjustment leeway either way. It makes sense to me that the frets have been dressed and therefore look low. The owner contends that the guitar has only been lightly played - could it be that they originally came from the factory with low frets? Can you tell me how I would know that the frets have been replaced? (Maybe from how they meet the binding edge?)

 

Finally, IF I needed a refret, does this negatively affect the performance of the guitar, or is there a stigma attached to the sale of a vintage guitar that's been refretted? I guess there's no doubt that it means a guitar that's had greater use than some closet queen . . .

 

Thanks guys for your time, I'm really learning quickly! Grundig

[grundig]

C'mon guys, please chime in with any opinions you have . . . it's better to hear things before I buy than after!

[cdntac]

This is the problem with big $$ transactions taking place over the 'Net....there's always some risk involved. Personally, I don't know if I could do it (risk that kind of $ with the guitar unseen from a stranger).

 

I was told when I bought my Byrdland that it needed new frets. I had a pro play it and he said he'd leave just as it was. But some guitars are going to need new frets throughout their lifetime. If it has to be done....it has to be done.

 

Tough decision for you to make on whether or not to buy it. Glad it's you and not me.

[sok66]

A good repair guy could reinstall pickup covers in a manner where you probably would be hard pressed to tell they'd ever been removed. Usually they get sprung at the solder joints, which is the giveaway. I don't see that in your picture. Fret size was pretty consistent on Gibson's in that era, lower than today's medium jumbos, but taller than comparable Fender vintage style fret. I'd have to see it to know for sure. This would not be a show stopper on a purchase, for sure, but if the frets needed replacing I'd use that as a bargaining point with the seller.