Internal construction of 335TD - one block or more?

[Tonegeek]

Is the solid piece that traverses the 335 continuous from the neck to the back end of the guitar or does it have some breaks in it? I ask because I recently saw a late 70's 335 that had a void between the pickups. In other words there was a block extending from the neck to about 1/2 way under the neck pickup, then about a 2 inch space with no block and then another block that extended on back under the bridge pup, bridge, etc. the reason I noticed it is there was a hole some idiot cut into the area between the pups to install a 3rd pickup. :- This void was not done by the luthier that I could tell as it had the factory stain on the ends of each section. He only cut the top and a little bit out of the block near the neck to put in the pickup.

[lpdeluxe]

According to what I've read, that was a "feature" of some of the Norlin 335s. First, they eliminated the mahogany end-blocks to reduce the number of operations necessary, then they started using two-piece blocks.Post-Norlin, Gibson reverted to using full-length blocks, but began routing the area under the bridge pickup to make electronics assembly and servicing easier. Many of the reissue and signature models adhere to the original's block -- for example, the Eric Clapton model doesn't have the rear pickup rout because Eric's didn't.

 

Gibson sold a lot of 335s during the Norlin era, but these days they are considered inferior to earlier and later ones. Naturally, this does not keep owners of them from loving them and playing them to death.

[Tech21]

Here's an article about 335's it reckons 1 block but anything could have happened in the 70's.

 

...335 article with a bit of 335 porn at the end...

 

T21

[lpdeluxe]

The block was shortened and sometimes eliminated during the years 1972-75, as part of Norlin's attempt to cut costs. The full center block was restored once it became obvious that players wouldn't buy a guitar that had had the heart cut out of it. This is a typical example of Norlin's cluelessness: the modification of robust, mature designs from the Ted McCarty era without any sense that the designs were that way because they worked.

 

For what it's worth, this is why I stay away from instruments that are less expensive but "just as good as a Gibson:" invariably, something not visible on the surface has been left out or compromised to meet a price point, whether it's the use of plywood or inferior electronics.

 

Fortunately, Gibson was rescued before Norlin could kill it with their brilliant management.

[Tech21]

The block was shortened and sometimes eliminated during the years 1972-75' date=' as part of Norlin's attempt to cut costs. The full center block was restored once it became obvious that players wouldn't buy a guitar that had had the heart cut out of it. This is a typical example of Norlin's cluelessness: the modification of robust, mature designs from the Ted McCarty era without any sense that the designs were that way because they worked.

 

For what it's worth, this is why I stay away from instruments that are less expensive but "just as good as a Gibson:" invariably, something not visible on the surface has been left out or compromised to meet a price point, whether it's the use of plywood or inferior electronics.

 

Fortunately, Gibson was rescued before Norlin could kill it with their brilliant management.[/quote']

 

Well said Sir, and totally true.

 

I recall reading somewhere that Norlin was some kind of beer and cement conglomerate from Ecuador or something like that...?

 

Well, I feel that I am probably about to spit in somebody's Holy Water with what I am about to write...

but it needs saying... so here goes...

 

The Norlin Era, Gibson came so close to going out for ever, I for one am glad they didn't.

 

Norlin... Dark days... The paint saving era, most things were Natural or stained sh*t brown or Walnut as it was known (to save cash), multi piece bodies and tops (to save cash), cheaper woods (to save cash), Maple used instead of Mahogany (to save cash), not bothering to chamfer the horns etc. on SG's (to save cash), necks made of multi-pieces (to save cash) and the money saving list goes on and on.

We were given the SG Pro, the SG Deluxe and the delights of the SG-100, SG-200, SG-250, SGI, SGII and SGIII, virtually everything had a Bigsby nailed to it, we got the Firebrand series (to save cash) and even the 335's were given coil taps (I mean why??? it ain't broke... don't fix it). There were other strange guitars brought to life at this time L6S, RD series with Fender scale length(?), Sonex, Victory, Corvus and quite a few bolt on necks.... in short, this is not my favourite Gibson period and I really don't like much of what was on offer at all, there were a few good guitars at this time (I have a 1973/4 SG Std) but most of it I didn't like at all.

 

In general the quality of Gibson guitars from the late 60's to the early 80's declined greatly.... not in all cases and some guitars from that ere were exceptional, but as an overall trend this was unfortunately true.

 

OK... so there you have it, the Norlin Era as I see it (and lived through it)... just IMHO y'all understand... You may see it differently.... You may now start hurling abuse at me at your leisure.

 

T21

[lpdeluxe]

Well said Sir' date=' and totally true.[/b']

 

I recall reading somewhere that Norlin was some kind of beer and cement conglomerate from Ecuador or something like that...?

 

Well, I feel that I am probably about to spit in somebody's Holy Water with what I am about to write...

but it needs saying... so here goes...

 

The Norlin Era, Gibson came so close to going out for ever, I for one am glad they didn't.

 

Norlin... Dark days... The paint saving era, most things were Natural or stained sh*t brown or Walnut as it was known (to save cash), multi piece bodies and tops (to save cash), cheaper woods (to save cash), Maple used instead of Mahogany (to save cash), not bothering to chamfer the horns etc. on SG's (to save cash), necks made of multi-pieces (to save cash) and the money saving list goes on and on.

We were given the SG Pro, the SG Deluxe and the delights of the SG-100, SG-200, SG-250, SGI, SGII and SGIII, virtually everything had a Bigsby nailed to it, we got the Firebrand series (to save cash) and even the 335's were given coil taps (I mean why??? it ain't broke... don't fix it). There were other strange guitars brought to life at this time L6S, RD series with Fender scale length(?), Sonex, Victory, Corvus and quite a few bolt on necks.... in short, this is not my favourite Gibson period and I really don't like much of what was on offer at all, there were a few good guitars at this time (I have a 1973/4 SG Std) but most of it I didn't like at all.

 

In general the quality of Gibson guitars from the late 60's to the early 80's declined greatly.... not in all cases and some guitars from that ere were exceptional, but as an overall trend this was unfortunately true.

 

OK... so there you have it, the Norlin Era as I see it (and lived through it)... just IMHO y'all understand... You may see it differently.... You may now start hurling abuse at me at your leisure.

 

T21

 

That's pretty much true and a good summary as to why corporate MBAs are a damn poor fit for an artisan company. They never realized what it is that guitar players want: they might as well have been making air fresheners or power strips. Luckily, Henry J (with all his faults) rescued Gibson so it's not now a Chinese-made brand. Gibson Guitars: 100 Years of an American Icon by Walter Carter and others goes into gory detail about how Norlin took a thriving, robust company, and turned it into a catastrophe (they didn't stop with Gibson -- everything they touched turned to s*** based on their top-down managing mentality; Norlin ended up printing stock certificates -- until it was taken over by Pitney-Bowes).

[Tech21]

That's pretty much true and a good summary as to why corporate MBAs are a damn poor fit for an artisan company. They never realized what it is that guitar players want: they might as well have been making air fresheners or power strips. Luckily' date=' Henry J (with all his faults) rescued Gibson so it's not now a Chinese-made brand. [i']Gibson Guitars: 100 Years of an American Icon[/i] by Walter Carter and others goes into gory detail about how Norlin took a thriving, robust company, and turned it into a catastrophe (they didn't stop with Gibson -- everything they touched turned to s*** based on their top-down managing mentality; Norlin ended up printing stock certificates -- until it was taken over by Pitney-Bowes).

Yep, that's just about how I see it.

I haven't read the book yet (must get myself a copy), it sounds very appealing and the Norlin bit sounds an interesting lesson into how to take a prosperous company and bring it to the brink of destruction with worthless top-heavy structures of managers upon managers none of whom have the slightest interest in, or any idea about...

A) the product their company is actually making, and...

B) the people who they are trying to sell their product to.

All they want is fat salary and a “Good Package”, nothing else matters.

This is what you get for allowing accountants and their ilk to make decisions in how a company is run.

Unfortunately this is all too common everywhere these days, I have seen many companies go to the wall with this uninformed and unaware management structure, then they take the “Golden Handshake” as the company breathes its last and then for reasons I fail to understand these “harbingers of doom” are welcomed with open arms into the next company… who they will consequently close down.

 

I must admit that I was expecting to be greeted with a hail of Flack with basically saying that due to Norlin 1970's Gibson's are mainly sh*t... but I did say not all of them were, just most of them.

Oh Well... I expect it will arrive soon enough.

 

Cheers

 

T21

[lpdeluxe]

I just sold a Norlin LP (see my avatar) for enough to indulge in a new Mesa/Boogie Walkabout Scout to satisfy my bass-playing side. It was my #1 electric for 12 years, and for a long stretch of that time, my only electric. Eventually a blonde 335 stole my heart, and I didn't take Lester out of the case after that, so he had to go on to a new life making music with a new owner. That's what they exist for, after all.

 

The reason I held on to him was that he sang like an angel...and the reason I sold him is that, bless his pancake-body heart, he was a real boat anchor and awkward to play sitting down (and painful to play standing up!). When I found the 335 of my dreams (gotta tell my dreamland persona that I really wanted a Bigsby, too), I had my sound and my look. But that's another story.

 

Guitars are all about sound, but ergonomics enter into it as well (although a couple of local LP specialists tell me mine was light -- go figure).

 

The book I cited is not exclusively about Norlin, of course: it's a history written with the blessing of Henry J and his team, and has many gorgeous photos of many gorgeous guitars, and is well worth buying. It's well researched and apparently complete -- and you wouldn't expect the best detailing of Norlin's constant downward spiral to appear in a book that might well have been a whitewash of all of Gibson's history.

 

Norlin was all about greed, and the ineptness with which its principals pursued dollars. As an aside, a very good friend of mine (the owner of a lovely bird's-eye ES-340, another Norlin gem) is moving halfway across the country because, after a lifelong career in health care, he sees the hospital at which he works as an executive sacrificing actual medicine to line the CEO's already gilded nest: so it's rampant.

 

You have nicely summarized the whole sorry syndrome, which permeates contemporary culture.

[Tech21]

I appreciate the book is about the history of Gibson and not just Norlin's attempt at closing them down.

 

Les Pauls... basically the same...

I love the sound of them but hate the guitar, way too heavy, very akward to play sat down and the same stood up.

I have had 3 LP's over the years including a Custom Black Beauty and I just don't get on with them at all, at present I am looking for a 335 with anything but a 60's neck profile which I really don't like, I have one on my '61 re-issue SG and don't really like it the profile of my 73/4 SG is much better even if the nut is a little narrower and I like my Epiphone 335, nice neck... not so good pickups. I have been put off 339's, which I was looking at, by a couple of Luthiers who have had problems with them and some shops I have spoken to say they won't stock them.

 

One of the many driving forces behind me leaving the UK 2 years ago was the way that everything is being run as a profit making business. The likes of the health system has had at least 2 extra layers of management installed in every department, consequentially cleaning staff, kitchen staff and some of the nurses are being fired as they can't now afford to employ them while the management types are spending 10’s of 1000's on decorating their offices, installing needless IT systems for themselves, laptops, Windows Mobile Devices and all the other toys and then buying BMW 5 series cars for themselves as their god-given right to a company car to drive to endless meetings to discuss things like getting in contract staff for cleaning, kitchen duties and patient care etc at 4 times the cost of the employees they have just got rid of.....

The UK Police Force (or police farce as it would be better called) is also being run the same way, criminals are getting cautioned while law abiding folk are being victimised by petty laws.

 

Come the revolution brothers.....

 

Cheers for now

 

T21