bynapkinart Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I've run it to an 8ohm 12 and it did indeed give a more compressed sound' date=' less volume. To much so for me. I want to sqeeze every dbl of volume I can out of this thing when I go to what we refer to as the "juke joint". My buds make fun of me and my cereal box amp but I believe after all I've read that with the right speaker & cab and a souped up Epi- THEY WILL EAT CROW. I won't be able to outdo a Blues deluxe but I'm not trying to. [/quote'] If you're talking about volume, you're not going to be too much quieter than they are...well, you're not going to be as quiet as you think. If you get a speaker in that cab with a great efficiency rating, you could get really loud. I like this webpage though (http://www.amptone.com/g112.htm)...basically, even though a Blues Deluxe is 8 times the wattage of your Champ, it is only a little under twice as loud. If you figure someone doesn't want to shake the bar apart, they could have their volume at roughly 12oclock and you could be cranked and you'd be about the same volume. Theoretically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted July 30, 2010 Author Share Posted July 30, 2010 Oh yeah, it was plenty loud through the line 6. Even with the 6in I ran through my compressor and Bad Monkey and boosted the sh** outa both of them and this little amp amazes me. He sets his BD volume on three or four typically so it shouldn't be a problem. They are thinking that the amp won't take that big of a speaker load, says it might fry but I emailed fender they said low wattage 12 is fine. my big ? about sp. is smooth or ribbed. Ribbed will work better for the 8 (according to many suggestions I've read) but when it comes to the 12 do I want early breakup because of the bigger sp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyscaglyc Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Cap'n, The Joe Pass string spacing at the neck PU = 1 7/8". When you order the PU they ask you whether it's for neck or bridge, no problem. You made me laugh about the "juke joints" & the gear snobs! Wish I had an ol' Stromberg Carlson cabinet for a 12", I send it down to you in a heartbeat. Stuff that sucker w/a 35watter & blow their minds! Keep up guy, you've got the right attitude.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted July 30, 2010 Author Share Posted July 30, 2010 I'd take that cab. You know, Even if I had plenty of dough I'd still rather do what I'm doing here. I've had this set-up for over a year and I've had faith in it in spite of much oppression and adversity. Now that I'm learning my way around a computer I'm enjoying this venture a lot. Turning this "TOY AMP" into a serious rig is bordering on delicious obsession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bynapkinart Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 my big ? about sp. is smooth or ribbed. Ribbed will work better for the 8 (according to many suggestions I've read) but when it comes to the 12 do I want early breakup because of the bigger sp? Well if anything your breakup will go down because you don't have to turn the volume up so far to get very loud. That could change based on the efficiency of the speaker, which is a rating in dB that basically measures volume. The speaker in my 1x12 is basically a Celestion Seventy 80, which has an efficiency rating of 98 dB. The speaker I'm going to put in it, the Eminence Wizard, has an efficiency of 103 dB. The cab that I tried with a Wizard in only allowed me to really get to about 8 or 9oclock on the volume before I started overpowering the drums...which was awesome because I was able to maintain my cleans while getting the best out of my P90s. I took the time to measure the difference in dB when I go with the 8in combo speaker vs the 12in cab speaker. I measured it at about 11 dB. I can imagine going from 6 to 12 would be more in the 18-19 range. Either way it'll be bloody loud. As far as ribbed vs smooth, I think ribbed speakers just have more structure and are more durable. I dunno who makes a non-ribbed, 4ohm 12in speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted July 30, 2010 Author Share Posted July 30, 2010 Weber do. 12A100 7oz alnico 15w $100. 12A100T ribbed same as above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bynapkinart Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted July 30, 2010 Author Share Posted July 30, 2010 I swear they jacked the price. I think they were $90 a week ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bynapkinart Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 That's why I'm really wanting to get the Wizard soon, they're only $90...and once people figure out how great they sound, it'll be up over $100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted July 30, 2010 Author Share Posted July 30, 2010 One of the gear snobs turned me on to the amptone site, very informative. They're not gear snobs if anything we are tone snobs. It's just that their incomes are such that they would rather just buy a Hotrod or a Twin. To me this way is more rewarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted July 30, 2010 Author Share Posted July 30, 2010 I'll check out wizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted July 30, 2010 Author Share Posted July 30, 2010 The wizard is 8ohm from what I can tell. I was looking and if I could fine another deal like that empty Epi cab that would be the way to go. It looks to be pretty big and I love the visual vibe. Fits right in. If I do go the BG Pure 90 route, any suggestions for a FAT hot HB for bridge to pair it with? Same price range? Thanks for all the insight. I'm new to forums and had joined another one where folks seemed a wee bit, dare I say it- snobbish. Ya'll've been a lot of help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aavani Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Bridge PU weak' date=' tinny and devoid of any "meat". The neck is an overpowering, booming, muddy mess.[confused'] This sounds exactly like my Epi. Sadly it gets wors last night I was playing and if I switched to the "Treble" setting it was such low volume it was almost inaudible. I suspected faulty wiring so I opened up the cavity plate on the back and found that each of the pots had a ball of solder on them the size of a dime very bright with a brownish ring around the outer edge of it. Everything worked fine this morning AFTER I opened the cover for the switch and checked it out but I am no expert... I may try and rewire mine too. I am good with instruction manuals so with the right tools and instructions I imagine this is fixable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 This sounds exactly like my Epi. Sadly it gets wors last night I was playing and if I switched to the "Treble" setting it was such low volume it was almost inaudible. I suspected faulty wiring so I opened up the cavity plate on the back and found that each of the pots had a ball of solder on them the size of a dime very bright with a brownish ring around the outer edge of it. It's common to the breed. Mine is made in China. I'm starting to think that if your serious about getting that real LP sound, buying an Epiphone is like buying a real nice Les paul blank. The stock pickups don't really do anything, they're just there for show. They let you know that this a real working guitar. You have to buy your own goodies. A friend of mine got a 76 Chevy truck with a staight 6 one time. Said he was gonna yank the 6 and drop in a V8. I said why note tune up that six and go on down the road and he said "Naw, ain't nothin' you can do when you get 'em like this. You just gotta gut 'em and be done with it". Don't get me wrong. I've liked this gtr since the day I got it and since Epi is owned by Gibson I don't really think of it as a knockoff. It's a real Epiphone Les Paul. I've only played with one person in my extended social circle who had a Gibson and he got it because someone owed him money and couldn't pay. Napkinart, I just noticed your signature earlier. You're running the same kind of setup. I was really thinking about that Vox 4w when I got the Champion. I had a AD50VT 2x12. I wound up getting the c600 because I thought it was ironic that I kept my Vox amp set on the Fender Bassman setting all the time. I like Fender clean/Marshall or Vox distortion. I've heard that the ACtv4 doesn't have much clean headroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bynapkinart Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Napkinart' date=' I just noticed your signature earlier. You're running the same kind of setup. I was really thinking about that Vox 4w when I got the Champion. I had a AD50VT 2x12. I wound up getting the c600 because I thought it was ironic that I kept my Vox amp set on the Fender Bassman setting all the time. I like Fender clean/Marshall or Vox distortion. I've heard that the ACtv4 doesn't have much clean headroom. [/quote'] Well the Bassman is a fantastic amp. I tested the Champ and the AC4 side by side when I got the Vox. The Champ has a classic Fender tone I feel like I would've liked but it would have needed a lot of boosting to get the right tone out of my P90s. With the P90s, the idea is pick attack...the harder you hit the strings, the more breakup you're going to get...from the pickup. The Champ sounded flimsy and farty with my P90s, which was not a tone I liked. I wanted to find something nice and warm like a tube amp should be, while at the same time getting a cool low-watt soft gain. The Vox fit the Casino absolutely perfectly. Clean headroom isn't really a concern at this point because the volume knob can only go to 8 or 9oclock before things start falling down in the house. With the 12" speaker, I have a ridiculous amount of headroom. When I get the Wizard, the next thing I'm going to do is get a lower gain preamp tube like a 12at7, 5157, or 12au7. I figure that will retain the chime and Voxy sweetness of the amp whilst giving me a bit more volume at prime P90 breakup levels. Anyone who's reading this who knows more about lower gain preamp tubes is welcome to weigh in/advise against, haha. I don't know too much about tube amps beyond what I read on forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 Oh, don't get me wrong. I liked the ac30 setting and used it a lot too, but it sounded better to me with some grit in it. For yrs now I've had problems getting a clean sound that I like. I usually played with a lot of overdrive just because clean sounded weak. I realize now that was my gtr. When I strummed an e chord first time in GC I had to have that C600. But now I'm at the other end of the spectrum gainwise cause I don't like fender overdrive, and the Bad monkey sounds kinda stale with this amp. It's better with bigger sp though, and the Grail helps. Congrats on your purchase. I'm still digging mine a yr later. Spring is great for electric and hall is good with acoustic IMO. I do wish the damn thing just had a flange speed adjustment for the Flerb. Even internal. I'd slow it way down cause like it is it's goofy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 The Champ sounded flimsy and farty with my P90s, which was not a tone I liked. I wanted to find something nice and warm like a tube amp should be, while at the same time getting a cool low-watt soft gain. Makes me wonder if I won't be satisfied for the same reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bynapkinart Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Eh well I don't really see myself using Flerb too much. I am debating whether to get one of the following EHX pedals: The Worm, Knockout, or LPB1. I don't really need the LPB1. The worm would be really cool for the tremolo and vibrato, not something I'd use all the time. The knockout looks like a really killer pedal if one can learn to use it correctly. I would love to have a Strat sound occasionally and maybe that can provide. What to do?? I dunno, maybe switch the preamp tube on the Champ? Or grab a Big muff or something along those lines. I don't use overdrive too much because of the Vox's ability to overdrive. Once you get a cab you could try an LPB1 and crank it, apparently that's a really nice sound. There were a number of reasons why I went with the Vox instead of the Fender...basically I've always gravitated towards British chimey cleans more than the shimmery cleans you're likely to get with Fender. I just feel like the Vox has a little bit more life. Yeah, it breaks up a bit more, but that's really just the nature of tubes. I think the Fender kind of suffers because of weaker tubes, but I haven't been able to play long enough to pass judgement. Basically, I tried out the Champ 600, the Epi Valve Jr., and the Vox AC4TV, and the Vox killed everything. Even my desire to get an AC15 or AC30. It's just that good. Not bad at all for less than $300 total, with cab, considering I was planning on getting an AC15CC1. Still might, but that might be wayyyy on the back burner now that I know I can run it into a PA and blend it so much nicer with my vocals than I ever could trying to fight the PA with a 100w amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 I occasionally like a good flanger and reverb together for certain kinds of leads if they are mixed just right. For my taste the way they set it up on this pedal makes it useless. But you do get good spring and hall. I recently bought a set of Tung-sol tubes for the champ. People on the tele forum were complaining that Tung-sols increased the gain way too much which to me sounded good. After installing I'd say they bump it a good 20%. Truth is I'm not gonna know anything until I get a bigger speaker. I'm starting to wonder If I want to go with the p-90. I'm gonna read up on coil splitting and such. It would help me to know why my neck pos. sounds like this. If I turn the neck volume past 4 the bass completely overwhelms the treble. Sounds very muddy and cheap. I keep my neck tone wide open. Is this caused by the pick-up, pots, or the cap. If it's wiring then I'll just get a JAZZ/JB pk. and maybe split the neck with a push/pull just for fun. PS. I wish I had had a chance to try out the vox (GC didn't have one). After I bought the champ I saw an AC4 in a store and looked it over but didn't play. It looked solid, well built. More like a white Class 5 than a Champ. Shame on Fender. I like my amp but it looks cheaper in quality than other 5 watters I've seen. I had a Valve Jr. before the AD50. Looked like you could throw it off a building and not break it. Ah, I sometimes wish I had it back. Ran it into an old '60s 6x12 bass cab. probably not good but the Epi was a rock. Had a cheap Russian Big Muff and my LP. Classic rock night at the Juke Joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bynapkinart Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 Alright I hope I don't come off snobbish or anything when I say that coil splitting is the worst thing ever. The resulting sound is very flimsy and dead, not nearly as spunky and twangy as Strat/Tele single coils, and not nearly as full and present as P90s. It always sounded to me like a dead pickup option. Not only that, but if you ever switch between split and humbucker, there is a massive jump in volume that you can't quite control with pots. I might be doing it wrong, so someone with split hums would be best to talk to. IMO, it is probably the worst possible option available to you. There are other pickups out there, too. There are Gretsch style humbuckers that have a lot more punch to them, and sound much more metallic. There are P90s, which are really the best if you want to get good, full gain sound while retaining balance and fullness when you want to go clean. Remember, the only reason humbuckers were invented and put in Gibsons in the first place was because people wanted a less hum-prone pickup (in an age where buildings had so much bad, unshielded wiring). When the humbucker came out it was unpopular among many, many guitarists until high-gain rock and roll became the norm (and Gibson put P90s in all the "student" guitars). With today's building codes and whatnot, it is really hard to find a modern building that isn't shielded enough where hummy P90s become a problem. I think the key behind the resurgence of the P90 is really the fact that people want a strong, full, powerful sound that has enough character and tone to stand out. Also, the plethora of hum debuggers/noise gates/reducers on the market makes it easier to play with P90s. A humbucker is a compromise between tone and noiselessness. A split humbucker is a compromise of a compromise. I promise I'm not trying to be a tone snob or anything, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who prefer the tone of a humbucker to a P90. I would play both and see which suit you the best. Find a guitar store that has P90 guitars and play some. Listen to some good old recordings. One of the hands-down best P90 solos I can think of off the top of my head is the Gilmour solo in "another brick in the wall pt 2" Also, try lowering your humbuckers. Wayyyyyyyyy down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted August 1, 2010 Author Share Posted August 1, 2010 Hey, no snobbies detected on this end. I'll take every opinion I can get. I hate to admit this but I just closely inspected the paul and my neck p-up is waaay closer to the strings than the bridge. If I hadn't blown my sp. I could probably settle this right now. I am prone to digging in deep looking to fix problems when the answer is a simple turn of a screw. Oh, well. I do love the Floyd. And the tone of that solo is killer. I always figured that was a strat just because Gilmour was a strat man. So are you saying I could get as much gain from a good set of 90s as these stock HB but be able to clean up better when I want to? I was reluctant to put one in the neck, I somehow thought it would make it even weaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bynapkinart Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 I do love the Floyd. And the tone of that solo is killer. I always figured that was a strat just because Gilmour was a strat man. So are you saying I could get as much gain from a good set of 90s as these stock HB but be able to clean up better when I want to? I was reluctant to put one in the neck' date=' I somehow thought it would make it even weaker. [/quote'] Haha I thought so too, until I read in a couple of books that he used a Goldtop w/P90s...I think a '56. Yes, you'll get the fat tone and breakup at gain, and it will clean up much nicer and sound better cleaner. It will hum though. Your problem if the neck is muddy is probably that it's too powerful. Generally, lowering the pickup height has a major positive effect. The lower your pickups, the better clarity you're going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted August 1, 2010 Author Share Posted August 1, 2010 Your problem if the neck is muddy is probably that it's too powerful. Generally' date=' lowering the pickup height has a major positive effect. The lower your pickups, the better clarity you're going to get.[/quote'] WAS NOT AWARE B) Just occurred to me. Maybe I should buy GFS HBs AND Mean 90's, swap 'em back and forth for 6mo then sell them all and buy what I want. I don't doubt they are good but a friend has an Epi LP with JAZZ/JB and to me they don't sound worth the price so I can't really see myself going a step below Duncans and still be satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Greenfog Posted August 1, 2010 Author Share Posted August 1, 2010 So are you saying I could get as much gain from a good set of 90s as these stock HB but be able to clean up better when I want to? I was reluctant to put one in the neck*' date=' I somehow thought it would make it even weaker. [/quote'] *I meant bridge. I think I'm gonna follow through with my last post. Pair of Fat Pats and a Mean 90 neck. Sell the neck that I don't like. I'm thinking electronics and speakers will be a bigger Improvement right now than high $ boutique p-ups. A couple of yrs from now when the GAS overwhelms me again I can up the pups, cut a nut and replace the bridge. I lowered my neck P-up last night and noticed big improvement. Napkinart, ladyscaglyc, jerrymac, eor, notes norton, and wiggy thanks for the advice. I'll set the plan in motion and let ya know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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