Gibson ES-325 block question

[rml]

hey guys

 

i had a couple of questions about the block in the ES325 and was hoping someone had some solid info on these guitars-

 

i have a 1972 es-325 (according to the serial number). a lot of people claim to have 1972 es325's and from the pictures there seems to me quite a lot of differences between the (supposed) 1972 325's out there-

 

my main question is about the block running down the guitar and the bridge.

 

my 325 has the block coming in from the neck to just beyond the first pickup. just before the start of the bridge there is a separate block of wood about 4 inches long, just a bit wider than the bridge, and as high as the inside of the body. between the pickups there is no block of wood.

 

in the bridge end 4" block of wood there are two large screw plugs for two thick bridge screws. the bridge screws can be screwed high or low to adjust the height of the bridge. the screws are the same thickness as ones on the Gotoh 0525-010 bridge.

 

my question is- some es-325's appear to have thin bridge screws and the same style bridge as the es-330- do the es-325's with the es-330 style bridge have that second block of wood under the bridge, or are they hollow like the 330?

 

heres a picture of a 325 with the 330 style bridge-

http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/40U-4490.htm

 

heres a picture of the 325 with the harmonica bridge with thick bridge screws-

http://www.vintage-guitars.se/1972_Gibson_ES-325TD_729179_front.jpg

 

another question i have is this-

the angle of the neck to the body of my 325 is very slight. you wouldnt want to raise the bridge from its lowest setting (flush on the wood) or the strings would get too high. on the pictures of the 325s with the 330 style bridge, the bridge always seems to be raised 1/2 to 1cm above the guitar. is the angle of the neck to body on the 325's with the 330 style bridge greater than the 335's with the SG style harmonica bridge?

 

one more question- ;)

some people claim the 1972 es325's have "gibson" on the pickups (as mine does). others claim their 325's are 1972 models without the gibson logo on them. is there any truth to 1972 325's saying gibson on the pickups? if not, what is the story with the gibson logo being used on some mini-hums fitted to 325's?

 

thanks for reading! and appreciate any answers ;)

 

cheers, rml

[L5Larry]

You ask many questions, I'll tell you what I can.

 

"i have a 1972 es-325 (according to the serial number). a lot of people claim to have 1972 es325's and from the pictures there seems to me quite a lot of differences between the (supposed) 1972 325's out there-"

It is nearly impossible to accurately date a 1972 Gibson (or any other Gibson with a six-digit serial number) by serial number alone.

 

"heres a picture of a 325 with the 330 style bridge-

http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/40U-4490.htm"

 

This what is generally thought of as the "standard configuration" of the 325.

 

"heres a picture of the 325 with the harmonica bridge with thick bridge screws-

http://www.vintage-guitars.se/1972_Gibson_ES-325TD_729179_front.jpg"

The tailpiece on this guitar is not original. At no time was this style tailpiece used on a 300 series thinline guitar. Since the guitar has been modified, the "originality" of the harmonica bridge may also be in question. As for the mounting studs, the harmonica bridge and the tune-o-matic take a different style mounting stud, not necessarily a different size. The threaded part of the stud that screws into the body is most likely the same size, only the top is different. The tune-o-matic height adjusts by thumbwheel nuts, the harmonica adjusts by a screwdriver in the slot of the stud itself.

 

"335's with the SG style harmonica bridge?"

To my knowledge, the harmonica bridge was never used on the 335.

 

"some people claim the 1972 es325's have "Gibson" on the pickups (as mine does). others claim their 325's are 1972 models without the Gibson logo on them. is there any truth to 1972 325's saying gibson on the pickups? if not, what is the story with the Gibson logo being used on some mini-hums fitted to 325's?"

 

From late 1970 until May of 1972 all Gibson pickups were logo embossed. Existing stock may have been being used up as late as early '73.

 

As for the blocks. The front "block" is the neck "tenon". It's part of the neck used to mount it into the body. All set-neck guitars have some sort of tenon, tang, or dovetail block in this area, all used in the support and mounting of the neck itself. The back block is used to mount the bridge studs. I don't know enough about the "economy" model 300's to know if this was typical or not.

 

I did once have an ES-320. The neck-set angle was very flat as you describe, and it was probably the lowest ES thinline model Gibson ever made (but a great guitar, I wish I still had it). The structural reason to decrease the neck angle is to reduce the downward string pressure on the top of the guitar. This may have been required to avoid the top caving in due to the more or less "hollow" construction of these guitars, especially, as you say, some didn't have a block under the bridge.

 

If you post photos and detailed info of your guitar, we may be able to come up with more answers.

[Ken Rayba]

Don't know if this answers your questions, but back in the 70's Gibson did not use a complete "center block" in some of the ES series Guitars.

 

I'm talking about ES-335's and ES-345's. I've seen 335's w/o the complete center block, and my 75 345 does not have the complete center block running the entire length of the body.

[rml]

thanks for the replies guys

 

i believe the tailpiece is original-

i have seen quite a few 1972 es-325's around on the web with that tailpiece- specifically ones with gibson embossed pickups.

i have attached a picture of es325 serial number 729179 with that tailpiece. my es325 is serial number 72920X (not disclosing the exact serial) with the same tailpiece.

 

i also believe the bridge on 729179 is original. ive seen it on quite a lot of 325's with the gibson embossed pickups. my es325 looks like it has the original bridge screw holes for the harmonica bridge, but the bridge was replaced by a cheapie thing stamped "JIN AH" (i have ordered a Gotoh 0525-010 replacement). I know gibson did use the harmonica bridge on some SG's in the early 70's. so they prob stuck them on the early 325's too.

 

if anyone knows if the later 325's didnt have the 4" block under the bridge i would be keen to know-

 

i would also be keen to know when gibson stopped using the harmonica bridge on the es325, and why they used the unusual tailpiece on these early 325's

 

also, did the later 325's with the different bridge have a greater neck angle? i presume they did- if anyones got one, would really love an angle profile picture ;)

 

attached to this post are pics of my es325 (serial 72920X), the JIN AH bridge and someone elses es325 (serial 729179).

 

cheers, rml-

[outsidein]

I know this topic is older, but in the interest of someone who may be reading this topic, here is the short and long of it when it comes to the Gibson ES-325:

 

First a little piece of important history:

In 1969 Gibson parent Chicago Musical Instruments was taken over by a South American brewing conglomerate, E.C.L., which changed its name to Norlin Inc. (for ECL president Norton Stevens and CMI president Maurice Berlin). Its widely accepted that this mismatch of completely different corporate entities caused Gibson's previous top class standard of quality to suffer at the hands of "efficiency", and the seeking of cost cutting opportunities.

What's this have to do with the 325?

 

The Gibson ES 325 was meant to be a lower priced option to the more popular Thinline models like the 335. Yet, through this guitar's life it was the "Frankenstein" of Gibson guitars comprised of various parts and pieces and defiantly showed the cost cutting company standards in action such as having One F-Hole, and plastic front electronics panel, given left over mini-humbuckers unused from Firebird production, and featuring a variety of tailpieces, bridges, and pickup covers. Most '72 feature the embossed pickups, but not all from my observations. This model was more about what parts, pieces, etc. where available. Therefore, the pictures in this thread all look 100% original to me without question.

 

The inconsistencies normally not associated with Gibson def where there during this period of ownership and the 325 probably captures that better than any other model.