Zentar Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I have a 1957 Harmony H65 maple archtop but the neck needs to be glued back on. If I clean up the joint and use Elmers wood glue will it hold? If this is my 1st attempt at reattaching a neck is this probably over my head? I'm no luthier but Ive done quite a bit of work of various types on guitars. Is there a better wood glue? Is this a more complicated job than I think? http://harmony.demont.net/guitars/H65/189.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 It depends completely on how clean the separation is. Is there any neck wood still in the body? In other words, did the dovetail fail because of the glue, OR THE WOOD! As usual, pictures tell a thousand words. The problem with the Harmony/Kay guitars I've worked on with failed neck joints was WOOD failure. The necks on most of these guitars is made of poplar wood. Poplar is the softest of hardwoods, and a whole lot cheaper than maple or mahogany. Cost of materials is how these companies offered instruments at "affordable" prices. So,.... it all depends on how the neck joint came apart, or what it looks like when you get it apart. These guitars, just as old Gibson's were put together with "hide glue". As a "traditionalist", I put them back together with hide glue. Titebond makes a premixed hide glue in a bottle (which I always keep a bottle on my work bench), but most commercial hide glues are "bench mixed" (powder YOU mix with water). Titebond also makes what has become the "industry standard" in white wood glue. As with any glue joint, the most important thing is how tight the pieces fit together dry. The glue just keeps them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 It depends completely on how clean the separation is. Is there any neck wood still in the body? In other words, did the dovetail fail because of the glue, OR THE WOOD! As usual, pictures tell a thousand words. The problem with the Harmony/Kay guitars I've worked on with failed neck joints was WOOD failure. The necks on most of these guitars is made of poplar wood. Poplar is the softest of hardwoods, and a whole lot cheaper than maple or mahogany. Cost of materials is how these companies offered instruments at "affordable" prices. So,.... it all depends on how the neck joint came apart, or what it looks like when you get it apart. These guitars, just as old Gibson's were put together with "hide glue". As a "traditionalist", I put them back together with hide glue. Titebond makes a premixed hide glue in a bottle (which I always keep a bottle on my work bench), but most commercial hide glues are "bench mixed" (powder YOU mix with water). Titebond also makes what has become the "industry standard" in white wood glue. As with any glue joint, the most important thing is how tight the pieces fit together dry. The glue just keeps them there. Thanks Larry. I knew the body was a Maple veneer but assumed the neck was maple since it was blonde like the outside body veneer. Poplar isn't a wood Ive messed with at all. The truth is I don't have the neck off. It wobbles but I haven't separated the body and neck joint. I've been trying to get info. I only just found out the model and year. It still has the P13 PU. I have had a sinking fear that I will be dealing with a dusty, dry rotted neck and body joint. I have been worried that after I clean the two joint surfaces that it will not be a tight fit anymore. I'm not sure whethr to use sand paper or wire brush or tooth brush to clean the old dusty glue from the joint. I got this from a friend recently and I even played it about 25 years ago. It had a deep rich sound like nothing else I own. I only have one good clamp. Id hate to have to reglue it and stack 3 concrete blocks on it. This is not an expensive guitar so it isn't cost worthy to buy a bunch of tools Ill only use once. I want to restore it but I don't want to spend much. The bridge was missing but I found a swell replacement. The tuners aren't original but the ones on it now are better than the origonals. They are klusons or Korgs. The letter "K" is all that is stamped on them. It is a really beautiful guitar with binding on the neck too. Though it is veneer maple it is surprising how good some veneer bodies can sound. if I can achieve a good neck to body glue joint I think the guitar will have a tonal value worth more than its economic value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 ...I have had a sinking fear that I will be dealing with a dusty, dry rotted neck and body joint. The only way to find out is to take it apart. This could be a really fun project, and a great learning experience. There are really no specialty tools needed, and the only cost involved (with the neck joint) should be a bottle of good glue. I have a soft spot for these 50's Chicago made Harmony and Kay archtops. They were great guitars for the money, with a value that far exceeded the price. I have found the design and construction methods to be very similar to the big guys of the day (Gibson, Epi, Gretsch, etc), but where they saved money was in materials (wood, electronics, hardware). As you stated above, the dollar value of the guitar does justify a lot of cash expenditure, but sometimes you have to just bite the bullet in anticipation that you could end up with a really great and unique guitar. I did a very similar project with a Kay built 50's "Silvertone" acoustic archtop. The gig bag I bought for it cost more than I paid for the guitar, not to mention a replacement of the dovetail on the neck heel, a floating p/u, new tuners, pickguard and TRC, and lots and lots of hours spent at the workbench. So, to make a long story not too much longer, I spent a couple of hundred bucks in parts and supplies, plus about 40 hrs at the bench, ON A $50 GUITAR. Was it worth it....ABSOLUTELY! When I first strung the guitar up and struck the first chord, it rang out loud and clear with a wonderful unique voice, like it had just been waiting to sing again. Here's my old Silvertone: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 I separated the neck and body today. This dove joint had been poorly reglued before. They didn't even use a wood glue. LOL. Your Silvertone is a classic from the days of jazz yet a lot of rockabilly players played those jazzy guitars and got a rock sound. I have read that Elvis had a Harmony archtop too. Everybody thinks he just played the Dove. I was looking at how you situated the bridge. Ive looked at other Harmony Kay archtops too. The bridge seems to be centered to the half way point of the F holes on every example. It looks like you have your bridge slightly canted. Ive been doing some thinking on proper intonation. Im wondering if I should eyeball the bridge placement or use a ruler? Should I cant it? Should I not? The bridge I purchased does not have string slots cut into it. That could be an issue. Dunno yet. This new bridge is height as well as side to side adjustable. Looks like rosewood. The truss cover is missing too but Ive cut a new one from white plastic I cut from a dish washer utensil tray that came from an old dish washer. I have the original P13 pick up with this guitar. To be able to strum a guitar and hear a real sound that was heard 60 years ago would be sorta surreal. When I played this guitar 25 years ago the pick up was not wired in. I only heard the acoustic attributes. This would be the first time I get to her a sound made in the 1950s. Some people never get to hear those early sounds made by archtops. There is only one H65 for sale on ebay now at a woping $1040. I didn't realize it was worth as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 I need to shim the dovetail joint. I need a shim material the thickness of a page from People magazine. Hmm can I use thin glossy paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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