Please help date this Gibson L-5 Special

[Sandbox]

Hey folks. I'd greatly appreciate any assistance you could provide dating this Gibson L 5 special, which was handed down to me from my dad. I've done a bit of internet research but I haven't seen a model like this one, which has "designed" pearl inlays on the fretboard instead of of dots or blocks. It's got a 16-inch body, which suggests it was manufactured prior to '34, although that's not necessarily true. The label says "Gibson L 5" with "special" written in script underneath. The first digit of the serial number is illegible, but the rest is: "_0076." I can't figure out how to post pictures, so I'm going to post this message and then try to add photos in a follow up post.

 

In any event, any help you could provide would be greatly appreciate. Thx.

 

-Kevin

[Sandbox]

Ugh. the photos are too big to upload and I'm too technologically inept to figure out how to create smaller files.

[JimR56]

Hey Kevin, I'm technologically inept too, but this really sounds intriguing. I hope you will stick around and show it to us when you get the photo thing figured out. Have you thought about posting them to a photo upload website like Flickr, Shutterfly, Photobucket, etc? That way, you could just post a link here to your page at the other site.

[Sandbox]

OK, thanks for the encouragement. Here's a link to some photos of the L-5 on Flickr. In case you're wondering, the tailpiece recently broke, which explains why there are no strings or bridge on the guitar at the moment. I'm in the market for a new tailpiece...

 

Anyway, thanks for the help.

My link

 

Here it is in plain text:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42798513@N06/

[TM]

Very interesting L-5. Look in the treble side F hole for a inked stamped number. This is the FON (factory order number). Current research thinking is that the FON will tell us more than the serial number as far as dating the guitar. The number will just be stamped on the back and may be hard to see or faded or blurred. The missing digit in the serial numbers is probably a 9. The only other number would be an 8 and that would date it in the the late mid to late 20s. Gibson was well known to have old stock sold well after it was built. The special designation could easily be attributed to the unique fingerboard and headstock inlays. I have seen another arch top or two with similar inlays. I will look to see if I have a picture of the guitar. The L-5 was an expensive professional instrument that could be ordered with special trim. Let us know what you can come up with as a FON.

 

Terry

[Sandbox]

Thanks Terry. Appreciate the input. There's some discoloration on the inside so the FON (if there is one) may be obscured.

[JimR56]

Kevin, when did you receive this from your dad? How long did he own it before he gave it to you? When was the first time you ever saw this guitar?

 

I have some more thoughts to add, but I'll wait for your reply to these questions first.

[jt]

What an interesting and gorgeous L5! Thanks for sharing it with us. Those inlays are the "wreath" pattern from Gibson's style 5 banjos, like the RB5. They occasionally appeared on some of the LC, "Century of Progress" flattops in the 1930s and on the L75 Century of Progress archtop. I've never seen them before on an L5! As you can see, Gibson cut up RB5 fingerboards and inlaid those "picture frames" into your guitar's fingerboard. The L7 and L10 archtops of the 1930s got similar treatment, though not with the a different style of banjo inlay.

 

Very cool! It's probably a mid 1930s guitars (when those other Gibsons got similar fingerboard treatment). Thanks, again!

[Sandbox]

Hey Jim. Well, I got it from my dad about 10 years ago. He probably received it from his dad as a gift when he was a kid -- probably in the early '40's at the latest. First time I remember seeing it? Some time in the '70's. My dad says he treated the guitar like complete ____. Beat the heck out of it. Brought it to bonfires at the beach, spilled gin on it, etc. Once he realized the value, he had it refinished (probably in the '80's). I did just find a recent similar example. See link below. if the serial number on that example is any indication, and if the info in the link below is accurate, then (a) my dad's guitar was probably manufactured in the early '30's (probably 1933), and (B) the wreath inlays are uncommon.

 

http://www.archtop.com/ac_34L5_kress.html

 

Now if I could only find a dang period replacement tailpiece....

 

If anyone has any additional info or pictures of additional examples of an L-5 "Special" I would love to see them. Thanks all.

 

-Kevin

[JimR56]

Thanks, Kevin. I'm going to confess that because this guitar is so unusual, and the fact that so many Gibsons are being faked these days, I had concerns as to whether it was all original and legit. No offense to you, but you just never know, and I've found that it's healthy to maintain a certain amount of skepticism with these things.

 

That headstock inlay was really throwing me, right up until I saw that old photo of Carl Kress in your link to archtop.com. I've seen similar inlay before (not often), and my memory was telling me that they had turned up on guitars that were clearly not Gibsons. I learned something here, so thanks for that.

 

At any rate, despite the unusual aspects of it (those fingerboard inlays still strike me as somewhat odd, what with the color contrast of the surrounding wood with the rest of the fretboard), I guess this just goes to show that you never know what you're going to see next.

 

Without any doubt, if that guitar had been given to me, one of my first actions would have been to contact George Gruhn (www.gruhn.com) and have it analyzed and appraised. I'd advise you to do just that.

[Sandbox]

Thanks Jim. I'll check into having it appraised by Gruhn. In fact I vaguely recall my dad giving me a letter at some point attempting to date and appraise the guitar. It may have even been by Gruhn. Of course, I can't seem to locate it at the moment. If I find out anything more I'll let you know. Thanks all for the help.

 

-Kevin

[jt]

At any rate, despite the unusual aspects of it (those fingerboard inlays still strike me as somewhat odd, what with the color contrast of the surrounding wood with the rest of the fretboard), I guess this just goes to show that you never know what you're going to see next.

 

The wood inside the "picture frames" differs from the rest of the fingerboard because the inlays really are chunks of banjo fingerboards. Here, for example, is a 1933 L-75 Century of Progress. It has the same wreath pattern for an RB5 fingerboard:

 

 

Here's the typical (RB3, I think) inlay pattern (though a few had the wreath pattern) on the L-C flattops (my 1936 L-C):

 

 

Here is the fingerboard of a 1936 L-7, with yet another style of banjo fingerboard chunks:

 

 

So, it's pretty easy to figure out how Kevin's (way-cool_ L-5 was customized: it's got RB5 'picture frame" inlays that, AFAIK, appeared only on RB5s, L-75 Centuries, and a few L-Cs.

[JimR56]

Thanks for clarifying, jt. It occurred to me after I posted that the aforementioned contrast in woods also appeared on the Kress guitar at archtop.com. The contrast wasn't quite as noticeable to me at first as it was on Kevin's.

 

The oldest Gibson I've ever owned was a 1940 ES-250 (had the "open book" inlays). I've never owned or handled an instrument with these banjo type inlays, though I've seen pictures of L-12's, L-7's, and 250's that had similar inlay work.

[jt]

Jim,

 

Well, who would have actually guessed that Gibson would chop up banjo fingerboards and inlay the chunks into guitar fingerboards! In addition to my 1936 L-C, I owned a 1936 L-7 for a while (lovely guitar, but I'm not really an archtop player). Those picture frame inlays are, to my eyes,very cool.

 

Kevin's L-5 got the full Karl Kress treatment. Amazing!

[flameburst]

Lovely L5!

 

As an aside, and to reiterate that anything was possible with Gibson, my 1940 L-5 Premiere has Super 400 inlays, which look like they fit the standard rectangular pearl block markers. Hard to see unless you are up close, but there is a line around each inlay, suggesting they were either fitted before the block markers went in, or perhaps retro-fitted later on.