Esonic imbalance

[Geezah]

Hello all. I'm new to Epiphone and to this forum. In June I purchased a new PR5E. I was fortunate to get one with a flat fingerboard and a relatively nice looking top (it's a natural finish). I'm really happy with it, as it was bought as a couch picker. It had all the qualifications; thinner body than my OM, built-in tuner, and not too loud since most of its use will happen after the rest of my family is asleep. So far so good.

 

The issue I'm having appears when it gets plugged in. The low E is way louder than the rest of the strings. I'm dealing with it myself as much as I can, since I don't have much confidence in Long and McQuaids tech departments. I've removed the saddle to make sure it was sanded flat on its bottom (it wasn't), and I've lifted the piezo strip to make sure it was clean on its under surface as well as clean on the bottom of the saddle slot (they weren't). After sanding the saddle flat and cleaning up the piezo and saddle slot I put it all back together and there seems to be some improvement. The only thing I can think of that I can do would be to file the edge of the hole through which the piezo enters the bridge. I seem to remember reading somewhere that a sharp bend can affect piezo performance.

 

My question is has anyone else had this problem? If so, how did you deal with it?

[milod]

I dunno. My PR5e is just about perfect almost outa the box for how I use it. I balance the tone stuff, occasionally mess with the phase switch...

 

But... not much of anything out of the ordinary whether I plug it into my AE amp or a board.

 

My first thought had more to do with whatever strings you're using even more than something with the "hole" used by the actual pickup wiring. For what it's worth, I started using DR "Zebra" strings 9-42 immediately after my purchase. Really nice balance across the whole sound spectrum on the thing.

 

My second thought would have to do with technique. I don't know how you play, but my bare fingers with slight nails (pretty much classical technique) and bare thumb may help the balance thing given the strings I use.

 

I can see how a thumb pick or even a flat pick could "thump" a bit more than on some instruments, depending on what sort of guitar you've gotten used to. The overall geometry can be a bit different, even compared to the OM -- as you mentioned you've noticed. I just did a photo check of a gig I did with a PR5e and it appears I'm playing with my fingers aft of the soundhole and depending on desired tone, roughly halfway between the soundhole and bridge. Again, with just the bare thumb hitting the bass notes with virtually no nail that I feel while playing.

 

Also, I have a number of larger AE guitars. I have noticed that I tend to "thump" them a bit more with my thumb, but OTOH, it's more like a subliminal thing.

 

m

[GuitarLight]

Hello all. I'm new to Epiphone and to this forum. In June I purchased a new PR5E. I was fortunate to get one with a flat fingerboard and a relatively nice looking top (it's a natural finish). I'm really happy with it, as it was bought as a couch picker. It had all the qualifications; thinner body than my OM, built-in tuner, and not too loud since most of its use will happen after the rest of my family is asleep. So far so good.

 

The issue I'm having appears when it gets plugged in. The low E is way louder than the rest of the strings. I'm dealing with it myself as much as I can, since I don't have much confidence in Long and McQuaids tech departments. I've removed the saddle to make sure it was sanded flat on its bottom (it wasn't), and I've lifted the piezo strip to make sure it was clean on its under surface as well as clean on the bottom of the saddle slot (they weren't). After sanding the saddle flat and cleaning up the piezo and saddle slot I put it all back together and there seems to be some improvement. The only thing I can think of that I can do would be to file the edge of the hole through which the piezo enters the bridge. I seem to remember reading somewhere that a sharp bend can affect piezo performance.

 

My question is has anyone else had this problem? If so, how did you deal with it?

Your saddle is likely not meeting and lying flush inside the bridge slot. There the saddle must lie perfectly flat and even, particularly when a pick up under the saddle is involved, or else the sound of amplification will be imbalanced with some strings being louder than others when plugged in. If it is under warranty a GC tech or other guitar tech may be covered to fix it. It is a relatively easy fix if it is the saddle. He will sand it perfect and re-install it...or....he may need to cut another saddle to size...which could cost about $50.00. He will also do a set up at the time which will make it play smooth and easy. Well worth it. Good luck!

 

 

 

[milod]

Guitarlight...

 

I was crediting the new member with knowing what he was doing with leveling the saddle, which is why I didn't mention it.

 

There's also a possibility that his saddle is of different character at that "E" than the rest of the bridge.

 

Regardless, if he's in a position to take it in to the store where he got it, and if they've a competent tech... it might not be a bad suggestion regardless to purchase a better quality saddle and have a good setup with his preference of strings. But again, I was giving him/her the benefit of the doubt for knowing generalities of a setup, bridge etc.

 

m

[Geezah]

Your saddle is likely not meeting and lying flush inside the bridge slot. There the saddle must lie perfectly flat and even, particularly when a pick up under the saddle is involved, or else the sound of amplification will be imbalanced with some strings being louder than others when plugged in. If it is under warranty a GC tech or other guitar tech may be covered to fix it. It is a relatively easy fix if it is the saddle. He will sand it perfect and re-install it...or....he may need to cut another saddle to size...which could cost about $50.00. He will also do a set up at the time which will make it play smooth and easy. Well worth it. Good luck!

 

That was the first thing I thought to be the culprit, and the first thing I addressed. The saddle wasn't at all sanded straight, and I've taken care of that. However, there's nothing certain about the bottom of the saddle slot being cut perfectly flat, which would be much more difficult to deal with. I recall seeing somewhere a process where a very thin layer of clay is set between the saddle slot and the piezo, with the end result being consistent contact. Have you heard of this? Apparently it works quite well and when the clay dries its acoustically transparent.

 

I'm in Canada, so GC isn't an option, and the techs at Long & McQuaid (the Canadian retailer) haven't impressed me, but if its a preamp problem, that's where it'll go. And if they want to replace the saddle, sure, I'd be fine with that too if it takes care of the problem. It plays fine, and sounds pretty good (acoustically) for a $300 guitar.

 

I'm thinking that string gauge isn't the issue-I use d'addario EJ-17's on all our small bodied guitars, and my daughters Yamaha displays none of the imbalance my Epi has. She tried to use the Epi as a second guitar at a gig, and the low E boomed through like a beast, totally unusable.

[milod]

Actually what impressed me about mine is that it sounds marvelous plugged in - which is why I'm sad for your experience.

 

I think your reasoning is along the right lines. But... I wonder if it may be a matter that all but the E are not making appropriate contact from the saddle to the little ribbon jobbie.

 

I can't speak to the difficulty from experience, but if the problem is as you relate it, I'd strongly consider taking it back to the store, playing it plugged in, and howling. Gently howling anyway. <grin>

 

Mine is what I'd consider an appropriate acoustic sound for what the "box" is and as an all laminate instrument. But plugged in, even with my very light strings for fingerpicking, is where the instrument shines. Yours should shine similarly for you, I'd say - and it shouldn't require you having to rebuild the bridge, either.

 

Do they have another in stock and are you still within a time period they'd swap you for one that works?

 

m

[Geezah]

Hey Milod. Ordinarily returning or exchanging the guitar would be a viable option, but L&M don't seem to want to keep this model available for purchase in-store, only online. And the electronics issue notwithstanding, I think I have a good one. I've played 3 other examples and one was quite nice (I wasn't looking to buy at the time), the second one had humps and bumps and buzzes all over the fingerboard, and the third one was used, and had really high action, probably brought about by medium strings. I would be surprised if a truss rod adjustment and new saddle would have brought it into line. But in January I held my breath and placed my order, and IN JUNE I received the guitar. So given the sample variation I've encountered, as well as the long wait, I'd rather keep this one and try to get it working as it should. It is after all my couch-picker, and as such it's perfect. The questionable electronics are not a deal breaker for me though it would be nice to have them functioning properly for sure. If filing a slight bevel in the hole in the saddle slot doesn't help, I'll cross my fingers and take it back to the store and let their guy have a crack at it.

[Geezah]

Resolved! I received today a reply to the email I sent to Shadow a couple of weeks ago describing my problem. It was suggested I check to make sure the pickup was installed correctly, and I discovered a thick piece of double-sided tape required at the point of the transducers exit from the bridge affixing the transducer wire to the underside of the top and adjacent brace hadn't been installed. After placing a double thickness of mirror tape in there, and plugging in, I was pleased to hear no howl at the volumes that produced it previously. Hard to believe that for want of a piece of tape it was all but unplayable plugged in at any kind of volume!

[milod]

Super happy for you ...

 

Although it does make one wonder about how some of this stuff is put together, eh?

 

m

[Geezah]

Indeed! Normally I'd be rather more upset with this experience, but I'm keeping in mind it's a $300 guitar; I can't expect perfection. But it makes me wonder how many others may be missing the tape.

[milod]

Yeah... it's a bit odd...

 

OTOH, I think for what it is, the PR5e is an exceptional buy. Period.

 

m