simont Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Reference Library Initial Check Out - Q/A {Q}3 - When the guitar was connected to the amp, the MCK made "popping" noises when we activated it.It also made noises when we rotated the MCK through the detent positions on the switch. Is this issue being addressed somehow? {A}This is Normal - its intended to "Pull OUT the MCK and tweak" then before you begin playing again, Push the MCK IN. In the full pushed IN position there should be no hums or pops or noises. If you hate pops and crackles - before lifting the MCK "OUT" place the PU Selector on Neck position and turn neck volume to zero. Make your MCK selections for alt tunings or chameleon tone, and then push the MCK all the way "IN" - then play as normal . WTF.??.. This is news to me. We can't change tunings or tones on the fly?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 At present, anytime the MCK is lifted" up" you will get a small pop sound as the active electronics are engaged. Anytime the MCK is "up", it means the "powertune" system is "on" and this results in minor audible background noise - rather like a very low "shshshh" in the background. If I'm recording, i would turn off the powertune system by pushing the MCK full "IN". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simont Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/DarkFire/Technology.aspx Master Control Knob. The Dark Fire's new MCK also controls the ability to change pickups and coils, allowing you the ability to adjust tone and tunings automatically and simultaneously, even several times during the same song. Guess I'll have to wait and hear it for myself but I wasn't expecting pops or shshshhs based on the Gibson product page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 If you watch Any demo of Dark Fire - you will hear the pop each time the MCK is pulled "UP". I talked to Tronical, and this is normal. Chameleon Tone Rundown 8:48 (In Italian) with a perfectly functioning Dark Fire Hear typical "pop" and "shshsh" each time the MCK is pulled "OUT" at these times : 00:58 01:39 01:47 01:56 02:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simont Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 Yeah I saw and heard it. I thought it to be one of the RMA type Dark Fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 All Dark Fires will do this when feeding a high gain amp Its not as apparent when feeding the RIP. They may be able to "Mute" when the MCK is "OUT" - but then it makes it awkward to select Chameleon sounds. Once you try a Dark Fire you will see its not truly designed for changing sounds or tuning "on the fly. several times in the same song. You could if you had a loud drummer I use a volume pedal. and mute between songs, while tuning. moving to alt tunings or changing from a LP into a Tele. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simont Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 All Dark Fires will do this when feeding a high gain amp Its not as apparent when feeding the RIP. They may be able to "Mute" when the MCK is "OUT" - but then it makes it awkward to select Chameleon sounds. Once you try a Dark Fire you will see its not truly designed for changing sounds or tuning "on the fly." I use a volume pedal. OK thanks , I'll wait and see. Does make the product page misleading though ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I'm still seeking the "20 unique Mag coil combinations" - also written on the Product page. Don't get me started on the missing RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simont Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 I'm still seeking the "20 unique Mag coil combinations" - also written on the Product page. Don't get me started on the missing RIP Seriously though, when you were talking to Tronical about the POP shsh issue,did they say it was something they hoped to address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Yes they are aware of it The answers I gave above in my 2nd post are the explanations Chris Adams informed me for how and why this anomaly occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simont Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 its not truly designed for changing sounds or tuning "on the fly. several times in the same song. You could if you had a loud drummer ;) .. another one for the wish so. Onboard LOud drummer!!! :- ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Solving these noise anomalies - Its already on the wish list I delivered to the Dark Fire Team during NAMM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLexxiTronic Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Simont: I was looking at your signature list: So, you play "air guitar" these days? 2009 Gibson Les Paul Dark Air Very Limited Edition , Last Run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
har Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 That's how life goes on in Europe. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simont Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Simont: I was looking at your signature list: So' date=' you play "air guitar" these days? [/color'] he he. I do mate. In fact i was practicing a few MCK manouvres when this issue came up. There's a "have nots" DF air guitar competition in the pipeline. You can guess the prize.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed91 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 the prize is a release date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitareal Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 There's a "have nots" DF air guitar competition in the pipeline. hehehe... nice one simont! Although it will not be as simple as other air guitar competitions: You need extra skills for mimicking the use of laptop and guitar rig 3 and frustration due to latency problems with our current sound cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chongo Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yes they are aware of it The answers I gave above in my 2nd post are the explanations Chris Adams informed me for how and why this anomaly occurs. I'm beginning to think Variax had/has the right idea several years ago. I wonder if it's just coincidence that their Gen 1 stuff is being clearanced at GC and that the rumors are that they've got Gen 2 ready to go and are now going to have the firmware housed in much better quality guitars. I'm really beginning to wonder if Gibson's course with the Dark Fire isn't a bit dead-end. We already know that changing the tension on a stock set of strings to go to a different tuning seriously limits what can be done (and what the feel of the guitar will be). Further, some tunings can't be done with a slightly heavier gauge of strings and yet others will snap strings or produce floppy strings if the gauge is lighter. With a Variax-like "virtual" tuning the string tension never changes and there's no wait for the guitar to run the robot tuners in the middle of a song. I'm also surprised that the software isn't ready; they've had the advantage of nearly five years of scoping out Line 6's methodology in that regard, and this doesn't seem to be any real advance in tech beyond what they've been doing all along. Maybe I'm wrong...comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 With a Variax-like "virtual" tuning the string tension never changes and there's no wait for the guitar to run the robot tuners in the middle of a song. It sounds like you never actually tried a Variax at the extremes of alt tunings. FWIW - Its a generation behind what the VG-99 can accomplish. I own a Variax 500 & 600. They both "flutter" when the pitch changes more than +/ - one step. The Roland VG-99 is better. I have that too. But nothing beats real strings at alt tuning pitch - particularly if you play slide and desire sustain. The Dark Fire is superior because its the real string. True the tension changes - but I have good results with Super Bullet .010-.046 strings, with my Barber Tone press compressor and and good amp, I can nail Lowel George, Bonnie Rait clean sustain slide. I find it impossible to do that with a Variax Also, the last two Winter NAMM shows the Line 6 booth was very dead. The principal DSP guru who created Variax and Vetta for Line 6, Dave Fruehling - left Line 6 four years ago to form Damage Control - thus the reason why Line6 keeps recycling their 2004 era technology. http://www.damagecontrolusa.com/ http://www.damagecontrolusa.com/about.php http://line6.com/company/jobs/ Article on Dave Fruehling - before he left Line 6: http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/feb04/5860/Fruehling When I get time - I'll post a video comparing all three (Variax, VG-99, Dark Fire) for Alt Tunings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
har Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 When I get time - I'll post a video comparing all three (Variax' date=' VG-99, Dark Fire) [/quote'] That would be very interestin for me. I haven't seen a Variax or a VG-99 yet. If i get it right, the VG-99 could alter the tuning without changing anything at the guitar. Maybe i'm wrong, but isn't it confusing when you hear the real played notes, of course not too loud, and the notes changed by the virtual alternate tuning from the speaker? I have to admit, that i'm used to play at home, so the output of the amp is not so loud. Sorry, if my writing is a bit confusing, i'm searching for the right words, because i'm not used to write in english. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Maybe i'm wrong, but isn't it confusing when you hear the real played notes, of course not too loud, and the the notes changed by the virtual alternate tuning from the speaker? Indeed - this is the #1 complaint from a new owner of Variax or VG-99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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