Is this really a 1951 Gibson J-45 ? How does it sound ? How about its low end ?

[gotomsdos]

Oh,thanks to you, j45nick and zombywoof !

You should say right.

Yet, over the two years, I've seen more 50 1946-1954 J-45s. but this one is the first with something like an open back centerline seam jammed with a wood strip that I've ever seen. Of course, j45nick does not think it's a seam. Maybe you're right. But from the pic, somewhere its surface looks a bit concave (but perhaps pic gives just a distorted shape ? )

I emailed to ask the dealer...not replied yet...

[gotomsdos]

 

I think it sounds AMAZING. That resonance, wow. Really, really like it. Don't know if I'd pay that kind of money. Well, I would, if I had the money and if it was exactly what I wanted!

This one on Reverb has been down to 4600 USD.

[j45nick]

Oh,thanks to you, j45nick and zombywoof !

You should say right.

Yet, over the two years, I've seen more 50 1946-1954 J-45s. but this one is the first with such an open back centerline seam I've ever seen. Of course, j45nick does not think it's a seam.Maybe you're right. But from the pic, somewhere its surface looks a bit concave (but perhaps pic gives just a distorted shape ? Who knows...)

I emailed to ask the dealer...not replied yet...

 

 

It is at least a finish crack in the seam, and it happens fairly often. Provided the centerline back cleat is still intact--and you can't know without either a first-hand inspection or good photographs--it is not a structural problem.

 

An open seam here--one through which you can see daylight--should be repaired, which is generally not a big deal.

 

It is not easy to buy vintage guitars without a first-hand inspection. Even looking at detailed photos is not a fool-proof way to determine condition.

 

You are further compromised by your location, which renders it very difficult to look at vintage US guitars. If you want to buy vintage, you should stick to major dealers like George Gruhn (and some others--people here will be happy to give you input on who to go to) who are known to properly represent guitars, and who will usually take them back if your aren't happy. You will often pay more when dealing with them, but you do have some protection as a buyer.

[gotomsdos]

It is at least a finish crack in the seam, and it happens fairly often. Provided the centerline back cleat is still intact--and you can't know without either a first-hand inspection or good photographs--it is not a structural problem.

 

An open seam here--one through which you can see daylight--should be repaired, which is generally not a big deal.

 

It is not easy to buy vintage guitars without a first-hand inspection. Even looking at detailed photos is not a fool-proof way to determine condition.

 

You are further compromised by your location, which renders it very difficult to look at vintage US guitars. If you want to buy vintage, you should stick to major dealers like George Gruhn (and some others--people here will be happy to give you input on who to go to) who are known to properly represent guitars, and who will usually take them back if your aren't happy. You will often pay more when dealing with them, but you do have some protection as a buyer.

 

Thank you for precious suggestions, j45nick !

[gotomsdos]

It is at least a finish crack in the seam, and it happens fairly often.

Hi, dear Duke j45nick ! The seller replied. He said:

the centerseam thing on the back is quite cosmetically apparent , but is clearly not much of an issue. It is right over the center wood strip on the back, cleating is already in place.

 

From the words, my understanding is, there is a wood strip (jammed) between the two wood pieces of back. Right ? If yes, so the question is(I know nothing about making guitar): For the making of a new guitar, is it a production routine to jam a little wood strip in between two pieces of back wood ?

[j45nick]

Hi, dear Duke j45nick ! The seller replied. He said:

the centerseam thing on the back is quite cosmetically apparent , but is clearly not much of an issue. It is right over the center wood strip on the back, cleating is already in place.

 

From the words, my understanding is, there is a wood strip (jammed) between the two wood pieces of back. Right ? If yes, so the question is(I know nothing about making guitar): For the making of a new guitar, is it a production routine to jam a little wood strip in between two pieces of back wood ?

 

 

It is not "jammed" into anything. It is a strip of wood that is fitted and glued between each set of back braces after the braces are glued to the back, and before the back is glued to the rims. It is a structurally rational thing to do, and virtually every guitar maker who makes two-piece solid backs does it. Martins and Gibsons are done virtually exactly the same way.

[gotomsdos]

It is not "jammed" into anything. It is a strip of wood that is fitted and glued between each set of back braces after the braces are glued to the back, and before the back is glued to the rims. It is a structurally rational thing to do, and virtually every guitar maker who makes two-piece solid backs does it. Martins and Gibsons are done virtually exactly the same way.

Thank you for directions dear Duke j45nick !

Oh, not jam, just fit(or place), Ok...

 

But, from you, Is it true that a guitar's back actually includes two pieces of wood and a wood strip in between them ?

 

Besides, I don't seem to understand the process of a making yet

From you, The production order is as follows:

1,

the braces are glued to the back

2,

a strip of wood is fitted and glued between each set of back braces

3,

the back is glued to the rims

 

Right ?

 

Now my question is:

From you, After process 1, Is there still a space between two pieces of back wood ? And then, fit a wood strip into the space. Right ?

[j45nick]

Thank you for directions dear Duke j45nick !

Oh, not jam, just fit(or place), Ok...

 

But, from you, Is it true that a guitar's back actually includes two pieces of wood and a wood strip in between them ?

 

Besides, I don't seem to understand the process of a making yet

From you, The production order is as follows:

1,

the braces are glued to the back

2,

a strip of wood is fitted and glued between each set of back braces

3,

the back is glued to the rims

 

Right ?

 

Now my question is:

From you, After process 1, Is there still a space between two pieces of back wood ? And then, fit a wood strip into the space. Right ?

On a quality flat-top guitar, the back is usually made of two pieces, which are actually created from a thicker piece that is re-sawn into two thinner pieces,, which are then opened like the pages of a book and glued together along one edge, which forms the center seam of the back. The two halves of the back are mirror images of each other, although there may be slight differences in grain, depending on the piece of wood.

 

The back is then rough cut to shape, sanded to thickness, the braces installed, and the centerline reinforcing cleat installed. This is an over-simplification of the process, of course. The back is then glued to the rims.

 

A similar process is followed for the top, but there is obviously a lot more to the process than can be outlined in a few sentences.

 

There are videos on Youtube that show this entire process at the Gibson plant, and you would learn a lot by watching them. It would help you understand the construction of a guitar, which would teach you a lot about the types of things you need to look for in buying a vintage guitar.

[gotomsdos]

On a quality flat-top guitar, the back is usually made of two pieces, which are actually created from a thicker piece that is re-sawn into two thinner pieces,, which are then opened like the pages of a book and glued together along one edge, which forms the center seam of the back. The two halves of the back are mirror images of each other, although there may be slight differences in grain, depending on the piece of wood.

 

The back is then rough cut to shape, sanded to thickness, the braces installed, and the centerline reinforcing cleat installed. This is an over-simplification of the process, of course. The back is then glued to the rims.

 

A similar process is followed for the top, but there is obviously a lot more to the process than can be outlined in a few sentences.

 

There are videos on Youtube that show this entire process at the Gibson plant, and you would learn a lot by watching them. It would help you understand the construction of a guitar, which would teach you a lot about the types of things you need to look for in buying a vintage guitar.

Thank you dear Duke j45nick !

But my main concern is what happens to THAT WOOD STRIP (not cleat) between two pieces of back wood.

Ok, I'll find some video...

[j45nick]

Thank you dear Duke j45nick !

But my main concern is what happens to THAT WOOD STRIP (not cleat) between two pieces of back wood.

Ok, I'll find some video...

 

 

There is no wood strip between the two pieces of the back on the J-45. The "wood strip" they have is a cleat about 20mm wide by 3mm thick that is glued on the inside of the back, between the braces, longitudinally, over the back center seam. This reinforces the back centerline glue joint, and is a characteristic of the back construction of most quality flat tops, such as Martin and Gibson.

 

There was a narrow piece of darker wood glued between the two back pieces on some SJ models during the Banner era (1943-1945), and that shows up from time to time on more expensive modern SJ re-issues. My Fuller's 1943 SJ has this feature, which is a 3 mm wide strip of dark wood (like ebony or very dark rosewood)on the centerline of the back.

 

This is not a feature of the post-war J-45, although it might show up on some war-time (banner era) guitars.

 

Here is the back of my 1948-1950 J-45, photographed to highlight the wood grain. The grain on each side of the centerline is a near-perfect mirror image, and you can probably see that there is no wood strip glued on the centerline:

 

[gotomsdos]

There is no wood strip between the two pieces of the back on the J-45.

Yeah, it's right.

It's hard to understand that a wood strip is placed in between two pieces of back which makes two seams on the back. Only one seam on the back without a wood strip in between.

 

So back to that 1951 J-45..

That pic (pic 8, not pic 7) seems to show that it's a something like grooves which luthier jammed a wood strip into between two pieces of back from OUTSIDE of the back...This is my guess only. Because that, if it's just surface finish come off, it does not look like what it looks like now. if it were really surface finish come off, it would not be in the same width as what we see now (just grooves which indicate that it's seemingly a wood strip in between two pieces of back, a repair?). Wonder if I'm right...

 

BTW, hey ! dear Duke j45nick ! Why not throw your "J-45" branded mahogany hammer to me ! It does not look like a good one !

[j45nick]

Yeah, it's right.

It's hard to understand that a wood strip is placed in between two pieces of back which makes two seams on the back. Only one seam on the back without a wood strip in between.

 

So back to that 1951 J-45..

That pic (pic 8, not pic 7) seems to show that it's a something like grooves which luthier jammed a wood strip into between two pieces of back from OUTSIDE of the back...This is my guess only. Because that, if it's just surface finish come off, it does not look like what it looks like now. if it were really surface finish come off, it would not be in the same width as what we see now (just grooves which indicate that it's seemingly a wood strip in between two pieces of back, a repair?). Wonder if I'm right...

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but I just don't see anything like that in the photo. Your eyes must be better than mine.

[gotomsdos]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see anything like that in the photo. Your eyes must be better than mine.

Here's that open centerline seam on back:

Better to use a megaloscpe

 

[j45nick]

Here's that open centerline seam on back:

Better to use a megaloscpe

 

 

Yes, I have seen the photo, and I have told you what I think it is.

 

We seem to be going around in circles here, and I have nothing to add to the conversation that will help you.

 

I wish you luck in your search.

[gotomsdos]

Yes, I have seen the photo, and I have told you what I think it is.

 

We seem to be going around in circles here, and I have nothing to add to the conversation that will help you.

 

I wish you luck in your search.

OK, It's good you saw the pic.

Nice talking to you dear Duke j45nick ! Learned a lot..