icing777 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hello, fellas! Was away for a while, just browsing on occasion. Hope all of you are well! I was thinking of organizing the GR-3 set-up for rehearsals and gigs, so I have a few questions: 1. Where can I buy the Rig Kontroller separately (I mean the pedal that comes with GR-3 in the package when sold outside of DF deal)? Will that pedal be good for our "special edition" of GR-3. 2. GR-3 can be used with any guitar without the RIP, I suppose. So... how do you connect everything? What goes where? A picture would help if anyone has it or can muster it. 3. I am thinking of getting a small laptop dedicated to just GR-3, maybe a Mini or something. (No apple - totally new territory for me...). Something with XP or Vista32 bit would be good. Any suggestions? 4. Also, I am trying to envision where the laptop would securely seat (like some stand or something, so I don't have to rely on little tables, etc,...) I want to be totally portable. Thanks again! I know the collective wisdom will descend upon me. Gotta love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCK Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hi icing777, Welcome back! I think you will be pleasantly suprised as you get more into GR3. Here are some answers to your questions : 1) You can buy it direct from Native Instruments. Checkout their web store. US$280 with free international shipping. Best price I could see around. You need to have registered your GR3 and logon with your credentials for the shopping cart to work. For some reason when I tried to buy the Dark Fire edition of GR3 was not enabled as eligible for this purchase so I raised it NI and it got fixed. Let us know if you succeed in ordering one please as I balied out at the last minute and ordered a Behringer FCB 1010. 2) If you buy the NI Rig Kontrol then it comes with inputs for a guitar or a bass etc. It connects to your PC via USB and thats it. Guitar into Rig Kontrol, Rig Kontrol into PC. If you use it in conjunction with the RIP no problems. You simply omit using the input in Rig Kontrol. 3) I would suggest avoiding minis. Underpowered in everyway and also screen is too limiting. GR3 is not too bad but Live requires a lot of screen real estate. Not sure how best to use in live environment. Maybe pros with live gig experience on the forum can chime in on this one. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Icing, good questions as I was thinkin about this a little bit also. I play in a band and use tube amps, but always have my POD 2.0 with me to front end the amp. I use an Atomic amp (18 watt class A) and it accepts different modelers into it's chassis to create the sound, the amp only has an on/off switch. You can hot swap modelers into it. I also use a '64/'65 Fender Deluxe stereo setup and front end them with a rack POD 2.0 (see my avatar). I just ordered a GR3 Kontrol myself and it should be in tomorrow. I bought it used off of Ebay for $210. Not sure I really want to get into more expense with a laptop, but I'm also trying to understand what type of laptop I could get away with using ? I was thinking about an IBM Thinkpad T42 or an equivalent. I can get a T42 for about $400, which is not a huge investment, but then again, I don't want it bogging down and not be able to process GR3 either. So, end result is back to Icing's question....Are there recommendations for using a laptop that is dependable, in processor speed and economically priced (is there such a thing) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icing777 Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Thanks for info!!! Maybe I will try my 9 years old HP laptop, I upgraded it to 2GIG RAM way back when, the only thing - it does not have firwire (could be added I guess)... But reading MCKs responce it seems taht I could avoid the firewire if I will not be using the RIP, am I correct here MCK? Now, here is where my confusion is: What is the function of RIP really and when I must use it? The way I see it is - if you don't have a Kontroller - RIP is what you use as a junction point for signal going both ways (to Computer, back and to the Amp / Mixing Board), right? Now, you have a Kontroller and the RIP. IS IT ONE or THE OTHER and NEVER TOGETHER??? As far as connections (sorry if stupid Questions are asked.....): "Let's go to the Videotape" Scenario 1: (no Firewire involved) Generic guitar ---->Rig Kontroller via USB ---->Computer ---> ???? how would you go to from computer to the Mixing board? Or does the USB connection provide 2 way traffic and then you go from Kontroller to Amp / Mixing Board? Like this: ?????? Generic guitar ---->Rig Kontroller via USB ---->Computer via same USB back to ---> Kontroller -----> Amp / Mixing board Scenario 2: (no Firewire involved) DF---->Rig Kontroller via USB ---->Computer ---> ???? Still no RIP, same question as above - connection to Amp / Mixer Scenario 3: (Firewire) DF---->RIP via FW ----> Computer via FW back to --->RIP ---> Amp or Mixing Board Scenario 4: (Firewire) Generic guitar ---->RIP via FW ----> Computer via FW back to --->RIP ---> Amp or Mixing Board PLEASE, let me know if I see it correctly or not, did I miss any other Scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I suggest you look for an intel Core 2 Duo machine check these sites every few days for one with an Expresscard slot and Firewire http://bensbargains.net/ http://www.xpbargains.com/ I prefer refurbished Macs http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac?mco=MTE3NjY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCK Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Thanks for info!!!Maybe I will try my 9 years old HP laptop' date=' I upgraded it to 2GIG RAM way back when, the only thing - it does not have firwire (could be added I guess)... But reading MCKs responce it seems taht I could avoid the firewire if I will not be using the RIP, am I correct here MCK?[/quote'] Using the Rig Kontrol you can plug in a regular guitar or a DF using a mono cable and play it through. Your DF will still function as a regular guitar and Chameleon tone technology will still operate but you will loose the following 5 abilities : * Charge the DF through RIP * Upgrade DF firmware when released by Gibson * Piezo signal separation. It can still be blended using MCK to activate and toggle * 6 string separation. * MIDI integration (requires cable yet to be released) Also note if you are using the RIP as your main connection between your PC and your DF then you can also use the RIP to connect any regular guitar to use them with GR3. Just use a mono cable. For the answers to the rest of your questions please first look at this picture and if possible read the specs off NI page : http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=rigcontrol3&L=1&nitr=1&l_src=guitarrig3&tsr_id=54530 Now' date=' here is where my confusion is: What is the function of RIP really and when I must use it? The way I see it is - if you don't have a Kontroller - RIP is what you use as a junction point for signal going both ways (to Computer, back and to the Amp / Mixing Board), right? [/quote'] Yes. Now' date=' you have a Kontroller and the RIP. IS IT ONE or THE OTHER and NEVER TOGETHER??? [/quote'] You can use one or the other provided you don't care about the extra capabilities that only RIP provide. They can be used together. As far as connections (sorry if stupid Questions are asked.....): "Let's go to the Videotape" Scenario 1: (no Firewire involved) Generic guitar ---->Rig Kontroller via USB ---->Computer ---> ???? how would you go to from computer to the Mixing board? Or does the USB connection provide 2 way traffic and then you go from Kontroller to Amp / Mixing Board? Like this: ?????? Generic guitar ---->Rig Kontroller via USB ---->Computer via same USB back to ---> Kontroller -----> Amp / Mixing board Yes. Check the photo. Rig Kontrol has 2 output jacks for this purpose. Scenario 2: (no Firewire involved)DF---->Rig Kontroller via USB ---->Computer ---> ???? Still no RIP' date=' same question as above - connection to Amp / Mixer[/quote'] No. NI specifically recommends avoiding this as most builtin audio interfaces in PCs are sub-standard. Bad quality. Scenario 3: (Firewire)DF---->RIP via FW ----> Computer via FW back to --->RIP ---> Amp or Mixing Board Scenario 4: (Firewire) Generic guitar ---->RIP via FW ----> Computer via FW back to --->RIP ---> Amp or Mixing Board Yes & Yes. Scenario 3 is specifically how Gibson intends you to use DF. The fact that you can also use non-DF or even non-Gibson mere mortal guitars using the RIP & GR3 which Gibson has graciously given us must be an oversight and might still get killed in a future firmware update!!! Just a joke' date=' I hope... but not too far fetched given the lawsuits we read about recently. PLEASE' date=' let me know if I see it correctly or not, did I miss any other Scenario? [/quote'] Scenario 5 ... - Use RIP for all audio processing and use a cheaper & more capable MIDI pedal board (ie FCB 1010 etc) to control all aspects of GR3 and not only that possibly Live or any other DAW etc. This is the path I took thanks to Elantric earlier posts. Search a little on this forum and elsewhere. Great info already posted even as recently as today on the post called Can I do this. Hope this helps. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icing777 Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Thanks for the follow up guys. good explanation, MCK! Still one q: Now, you have a Kontroller and the RIP. IS IT ONE or THE OTHER and NEVER TOGETHER??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCK Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Thanks for the follow up guys. good explanation' date=' MCK! Still one q: Now, you have a Kontroller and the RIP. IS IT ONE or THE OTHER and NEVER TOGETHER???[/quote'] Hit the refresh key !!! All shall be revealed! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 If I owned a Rig Kontrol 3 with Dark Fire and RIP I would connect as follows: With RIP connected via Firwire to Macbook Pro running GR3: The Audio Path would be: Dark Fire > RIP IN > RIP Stereo Outputs > Traynor K4 stereo full range amp. At the same time - I would use the following for foot control of Guitar Rig. Rig Kontrol 3 > USB > Macbook Pro - and use the GR3 "Control Learn" command to map various Rig Kontrol foot buttons, expression pedal to manipulate GR3 FX. Rig Kontrol is only for Control and selected MIDI INPUT device on GR3 (Ignore its Audio capabilities) RIP is the Audio Interface and selected as Audio Interface in GR3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed91 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hi, In one of my bands, the guitarist uses Guitar Rig and Rig Controller for every Gig and it works perfectly. The rig controler works as an external audio interface, but for it to be perfectly used, you'll need a firewire connexion for no (or nearly not) latency. You can work with vista or Xp, both are OK. As I didn't received my DF, I have no RIP to test the DF on it but still, I work with an external audio interface (firewire) with GR3 at home and that's perfect (no latency, nice sound). So as soon as you have a nice external interface (like the RIP) you will have no issue in using GR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boardusmcer Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hi' date=' In one of my bands, the guitarist uses Guitar Rig and Rig Controller for every Gig and it works perfectly. The rig controler works as an external audio interface, but for it to be perfectly used, you'll need a firewire connexion for no (or nearly not) latency. You can work with vista or Xp, both are OK. As I didn't received my DF, I have no RIP to test the DF on it but still, I work with an external audio interface (firewire) with GR3 at home and that's perfect (no latency, nice sound). So as soon as you have a nice external interface (like the RIP) you will have no issue in using GR. [/quote'] what does he send the sound to? does he jack it straight into the PA or have some type of guitar amp he uses. Just trying to experiment on what will give me the best sound, gr says to use a keyboard amp, but elanctric suggested a roland or pa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 gr says to use a keyboard amp, but elanctric suggested a roland or pa I never said that I said use : A pair of self powered PA cabs ( JBL EONs 14P, G2, Bose L1) or a very good Keyboard amp - like the Traynor K4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icing777 Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 You guys are fantastic! Thank you so very much!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed91 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 what does he send the sound to? The sound is sent directly in the mixer. That works fine You can also use amps that does not alter the sound, like the traynor K4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boardusmcer Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 ok, thanks for clearing that up. Sorry elantric, i must have misunderstood. I tried to go back to find the post and read it again, but it has been removed. Is there a way to read historical posts on here? I really like the traynor because it seems much more portable than the jbl eon's, but the eon's would be great to also use when i play with my band, for vocals, monitors, etc. I would like to own my own PA so i guess i'll have to do some debating on what i'll need/use more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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