Pups Polarity

[MCK]

Thanks for that check. I think I'm ok!

[photonutalan1]

Elantric,

 

Thank you again for this very clear test procedure; my DF checks out fine! Since this is my first LP, I'm also most grateful for your detailed explanation of how the pots interact; I was really puzzled at first. Now I can relax and enjoy; thanks!

[Ulhuru]

Elantric,

 

Do you really think I can go ahead and reverse the polarity of the bridge pick up myself, as you described earlier?

 

Gibson Europe seems to think this is not something that can be done by a user... without being in a Nasa laboratory of some sort...

[elantric]

Heres a very useful tool for testing PU polarity

 

http://tinyurl.com/d5y3r9

 

 

Schatten Magnet Polarity Tester

 

 

Jim Rolph, of J.M. Rolph Pickups in Highland Heights, Kentucky, specializes in building and rewinding pickups. Jim introduced us to the benefits of a magnet polarity tester.

 

“This is the most frequently used tool in my shop, and it’s something that repairmen, dealers, collectors, players—anyone who deals with pickups—needs.”

 

“Once a pickup leaves the original owner’s hands, and it’s not marked, how else are you going to know the magnet polarity? How many times have you wired a pickup and found that it’s magnetically out of phase, even though the white and black leads looked right? You end up with the same thin, low-powered, tinny sound as a pickup that’s wired out of phase. The tester eliminates that problem. I don’t see how a shop working on electric guitars could operate without a tool like this. There’s no money in doing a job the second time!”

 

“When you’re at a show looking to buy a guitar, knowing the polarity of the pickups can mean the difference between buying an untouched piece or one which looks right, but has had a pickup or two replaced. For your records, here’s are the usual magnet polarities on some of the most common vintage pickups”:

 

• Tele bridge pickups remained south up from the start, and the neck pickups were north up. Later, probably in the mid 50s, the neck became south up.

 

• Strats were always north up until 1960 when they became south up, and have remained so except for some of their newer products such as their ‘Texas Specials.’

 

• The Jazzmaster came along in ‘57 with a north and a south to make them hum-cancelling in the middle position (as did the Jaguar, Mustang, and Jazz Bass-paralleling Gibson’s new humbucking pickup, which debuted with the Les Paul that same year).

 

• The P-Bass has one part of the pickup north and one part south, also making it hum-cancelling. Early P-Basses with the Tele-style headstock had a Strat-shaped single coil pickup.

 

• Gibson P-90s are always south up, and their PAF humbuckers were south up on the screw side, and north up on the slug side (hidden under the covers). The later patent number humbuckers remained the same.

 

 

 

 

UPDATE:

 

* The Dark Fire's Neck P-90H is North Up

 

The Dark Fire's Bridge Burstbucker III Coil closest to the Bridge is South Up, and the Coil closest to the neck is North up.

 

 

[Ulhuru]

Hi,

 

Does anybody have the wiring diagram of the toggle switch?

Someone in Japan?? :-)

 

... or, in fact, the wiring diagram of entire DF internal components?

 

Thanks if anybody has hints for me,

 

(My bridge PUP is still polarity reversed)

[Ulhuru]

One more thing:

 

Piezo shows a phase issue when combined with Neck PUP, but ONLY when blending piezo with the MAG using the toggle level.

 

When I do use the second jack output to connect the piezo to its own Live channel and its own GR3, MAG & Piezo seem "in phase" regardless of Neck / Bridge mic in use, and no apparent cancellation is showing.

 

See also here, for what seem to me like a related "issue" or "feature", (tbd):

 

http://forums.gibson.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&m=200842𱂊

 

Cheers

 

 

PS: I look forward to test all this with my RIP when I get one...

[elantric]

This is the correct 5 pin wiring order for the Dark Fire Bridge PU

 

 

This is the updated correct 5 pin wiring order for the Dark Fire Neck PU * note red & white wire locations

[MCK]

Hi' date='

 

Does anybody have the wiring diagram of the toggle switch?

Someone in Japan?? :-)

 

... or, in fact, the wiring diagram of entire DF internal components?

 

Thanks if anybody has hints for me,

 

(My bridge PUP is still polarity reversed)[/quote']

 

Sorry I missed your call earlier while on vacation. Your question is answered now or do you still need help with this?

[Ulhuru]

Hi, thanks for your reply(s),

 

(Elantric, thanks for the latest pictures)

 

In fact I have been instructed by service europe NOT to open the back of DF, as they say there is some sensitive computer stuff in there that should only be manipulated in a white room (no dust, wearing white hats, mask and gloves)...

 

(I did open the neck mic, and there was not so much that could be done from this side)

 

But now that I see shots of opened Dark Fire from Elantric I might get on the adventurous edge again, as it seem not so difficult to swap the red and white cable...

 

Anyways, I have been to Frankfurt and tested DFs there, these sounded much better than mine with polarity reversed pup, so I am tempted to act now :-)

 

And MCK, with the updated entry by Elantric above, I think I can manage that change, thanks for your help

 

Please, anybody, stop me before it's too late if you think this could create a problem opening the guitar in any other place than a NASA satellite assembly facility...

 

Cheers

[dukemaster]

....

 

In fact I have been instructed by service europe NOT to open the back of DF' date=' as they say there is some sensitive computer stuff in there that should only be manipulated in a white room (no dust, wearing white hats, mask and gloves)...

[/quote']

 

My God! Your service center must seriously be hurting for business to try scare tactics like that. How absurd! Go ahead and open the back covers. If the electronics were that sensitive the cavities would be hermetically sealed like a hard drive and have air tight seals on them. What a load of $hit. I would be willing to bet they were laughing once they hung the phone up. Go ahead and open it up, just be most careful to not scratch anything. White room my a$$.

[DiscoPimp]

Please' date=' anybody, stop me before it's too late if you think this could create a problem opening the guitar in any other place than a NASA satellite assembly facility...

Cheers[/quote']

 

do you want me to hook you up with someone at the CERN ? they got cleanrooms a plenty i would think ... ...

 

 

allez, fais peter ...

[dukemaster]

do you want me to hook you up with someone at the CERN ? they got cleanrooms a plenty i would think ... ...

 

allez' date=' fais peter ...[/quote']

 

How many cleanrooms does Gibson have? (I'm sure they have clean areas but not "rooms" that are on the level of space or electronics high tech. What would that do to the price? How rediculous!

[Ulhuru]

 

do you want me to hook you up with someone at the CERN ? they got cleanrooms a plenty i would think ... ...

 

 

For my Dark Fire to vanish in a Dark Hole?? THAT would certainly solve the cleaning and the polarity issue, though

[Ulhuru]

 

How many cleanrooms does Gibson have? (I'm sure they have clean areas but not "rooms" that are on the level of space or electronics high tech. What would that do to the price? How rediculous!

 

To be fair, I think the truth got distorted along the way (my dealer did mention a clean room), but Gibson service was talking more of a "lower" tech setup:

 

"Repair facilities need to have an electrostatic discharge workstation setup like anti static mats, grounded bracelet that they wear, specialized soldering iron etc."

[dukemaster]

I can understand the anti-static precautions. That is a given for probably even a toaster or coffee maker now a days.

Just discharge any static build up by touching your water faucet and then go ahead and open up the back. Also, static exists mostly in dry conditions or homes with very low humidity. Raising the humidity in a dry envrionment can eliminate static build up as well.

[DiscoPimp]

Ulhuru, have you taken the beast apart ? Bug report now states this bug is resolved through the updated wiring pic in this thread ... just curious how the repair procedure went on your side ...

[Ulhuru]

Hi,

 

In fact no!

 

I had a peek inside trough the perspex window, seen the Tronical CPU and battery pack, realized the interesting bits were underneath that layer of fine electronics and altogether just gave up :-)

[Rockin365]

The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.

 

 

ALLWAYS

 

Guess its not just me that it happens too! lol

[dukemaster]

Hi' date='

 

In fact no!

 

I had a peek inside trough the perspex window, seen the Tronical CPU and battery pack, realized the interesting bits were underneath that layer of fine electronics and altogether just gave up :-)

 

 

[/quote']

 

Aw heck! Ship it to me and I'll fix it for FREE!!!!!

[Ansgarius]

Heres a very useful tool for testing PU polarity

 

http://tinyurl.com/d5y3r9

 

 

Schatten Magnet Polarity Tester

 

 

Jim Rolph, of J.M. Rolph Pickups in Highland Heights, Kentucky, specializes in building and rewinding pickups. Jim introduced us to the benefits of a magnet polarity tester.

 

“This is the most frequently used tool in my shop, and it’s something that repairmen, dealers, collectors, players—anyone who deals with pickups—needs.”

 

“Once a pickup leaves the original owner’s hands, and it’s not marked, how else are you going to know the magnet polarity? How many times have you wired a pickup and found that it’s magnetically out of phase, even though the white and black leads looked right? You end up with the same thin, low-powered, tinny sound as a pickup that’s wired out of phase. The tester eliminates that problem. I don’t see how a shop working on electric guitars could operate without a tool like this. There’s no money in doing a job the second time!”

 

“When you’re at a show looking to buy a guitar, knowing the polarity of the pickups can mean the difference between buying an untouched piece or one which looks right, but has had a pickup or two replaced. For your records, here’s are the usual magnet polarities on some of the most common vintage pickups”:

 

• Tele bridge pickups remained south up from the start, and the neck pickups were north up. Later, probably in the mid 50s, the neck became south up.

 

• Strats were always north up until 1960 when they became south up, and have remained so except for some of their newer products such as their ‘Texas Specials.’

 

• The Jazzmaster came along in ‘57 with a north and a south to make them hum-cancelling in the middle position (as did the Jaguar, Mustang, and Jazz Bass-paralleling Gibson’s new humbucking pickup, which debuted with the Les Paul that same year).

 

• The P-Bass has one part of the pickup north and one part south, also making it hum-cancelling. Early P-Basses with the Tele-style headstock had a Strat-shaped single coil pickup.

 

• Gibson P-90s are always south up, and their PAF humbuckers were south up on the screw side, and north up on the slug side (hidden under the covers). The later patent number humbuckers remained the same.

 

 

 

 

UPDATE:

 

* The Dark Fire's Neck P-90H is North Up

 

The Dark Fire's Bridge Burstbucker III Coil closest to the Bridge is South Up, and the Coil closest to the neck is North up.

 

 

 

 

I have a Les Paul BFG Goldtop the P90 screw is south in the Burstbucker III screw is north i buy in ebay a Dark Fire Pickup set to put in my BFG and the P90H up allen screw is south and the Burstbucker III is north the coil close to the bridge same pole like the Factory BFG, some body help me i need the color code for both pickups, thanks.