Floating P-90 in the Bridge Position on an Archtop?

[Ignatius]

Okay, so as most of you know, I own an early '50s full-depth ES-125 that I really like, and indeed, I am pretty much set at this point to say this is the only electric I need except for one crucial problem: it only has one pickup. That pick-up is a fantastic Gibson stock P-90 in the neck position, but it would be great to expand the sonic possibilities of the guitar. I have been looking at various places that sell pickups you can add to vintage archtops with minimal alteration to the guitar, and this got me to thinking: what if I had a floating P-90 attached to the pickguard (not the original pickguard, by the way) but placed it in the lead/bridge position?

 

Then, I could have the wiring run to the already-present tone and volume controls, which then could operate for both pickups: a single volume and single tone control, much like the set-up on a Telecaster. The only problem to solve then is where to put the pickup switch--I guess it has to go on the pickguard in some way if I don't want to do any damage to the body of the guitar.

 

This is a pure hypothetical scenario at this time. I'm just wondering if any of you vintage archtop owners have experience with floating pickups and could comment on whether this would work, or whether I am missing obvious problems. The goal of running to the same controls is to wire the pickups in such a way that they also could be noise-cancelling when both active.

 

The only floating P-90 that I have seen up to this point is one made by Kent Anderson. Of course, my next problem is whether this pickup will play well with the stock Gibson P-90.

 

Thoughts/comments much appreciated!

 

Ignatius

[L5Larry]

The problem I see with trying to float a standard pickup is the depth, that it would not fit under the strings in a suspended position. Another problem might be the weight hanging off the pickguard. I'm not that familiar with P-90's, but a standard size humbucker would not work.

 

The pickups made for this type of installation are smaller, in both size and weight. I have experimented with pickguard mounted and fingerboard mounted pickups on archtops, and have decided what I like of each type. Kent Armstrong makes a great fingerboard mounted humbucker, easy installation with mounting bracket, good sound, reasonable price. I put one of these on an old Silvertone archtop I use as my experiment guitar.

 

I also have a 1947 L-7 that I wanted to gig with and need to put a pickup on it without doing any serious damage or alterations to the guitar. So I decided the only way to go was to make a repro pickguard and find a pickup to go on that. After doing some research into pickup systems on high end archtops and talking to some jazz guys, I found out that Seymour Duncan makes the pickups on Benedetto's. A couple friends of mine are serious Benedetto guys, so I've had the opportunity to play and hear a few of them. So on my L-7 I installed a "Benedetto" S-6 pickguard mounted pickup and only a volume pot on the pickguard, ran the wire through the body to and endpin jack. So the only mods I had to do the the old Gibson was ream out the strap button hole in the tailblock to install the endpin jack. I figured I could live with that.

 

I have been completely satisfied with this system, it sounds and looks fantastic. In fact the pickup is encased in a kind of woodgrain looking almost black plastic. From 20 feet you can't even see it. This pickup is not cheap, but I think it is worth the price. Here's a Stew-Mac link:

 

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Pickups:_Guitar,_archtop/Benedetto_Suspended_Jazz_Pickups.html

 

Here's a couple of pics of the L-7 installation. I also have a line on some old brown bakelite radio knobs, I hope to find one to finish off the "look".

 

 

[Ignatius]

The problem I see with trying to float a standard pickup is the depth' date=' that it would not fit under the strings in a suspended position. Another problem might be the weight hanging off the pickguard. I'm not that familiar with P-90's, but a standard size humbucker would not work.[/quote']

 

Hey L5 Larry--

 

That is a very nice looking pickup setup. Thanks for posting those pictures. That L-7 is one beautiful guitar; I love it more every time I see it.

 

Kent Anderson's P-90 is a very similar system (lighter weight, side-mounted, etc.) that mounts on the pickguard in the exact same way as your pickup on the L-7, except that it actually is a P-90. My questions, though, could be just as easily asked of the Benedetto that you have: could you envision that pickup mounted similarly to the pickguard but in the bridge position and to serve as a second pickup to the ES-125's stock P-90? Second, do you think your Benedetto could be wired to the volume and tone knobs already on my guitar in a set-up similar to that of a Telecaster?

 

Again, just thinking hypothetically. And of course, I would have all this done by a professional. I'll rip the guts out of a solidbody, but I am not going to risk messing up this guitar, even if it is "only" an ES-125 (as some people have told me in the past).

 

Ignatius

[L5Larry]

could you envision that pickup mounted similarly to the pickguard but in the bridge position and to serve as a second pickup to the ES-125's stock P-90? Second' date=' do you think your Benedetto could be wired to the volume and tone knobs already on my guitar in a set-up similar to that of a Telecaster?Ignatius[/quote']

 

Absolutely on both accounts. I believe Gibson made a double pickup Johnny Smith model at one time. It had a little humbucker mounted in both ends of the pickguard. I'm not sure how it was wired or switched though (I think it had two volume controls on the pickguard). As far as running both pickups to one set of vol/tone controls, no problem with an added switch. Just wire the pickups to the switch first, then run the switch output to the same place the single pickup is currently wired. All double (or triple) pickup guitars eventually come out of one pair of wires at the output jack (except stereo guitars, of course), your just combining the stream at a different place.

 

You will probably have to engineer some extra support for the pickguard under the area where you mount it. This mounting area is the farthest away from the brackets and screws, and is already the floppiest part of the pickguard. The easiest way to do this is to install a spacer under the guard that would rest on the top of the guitar. A wooden dowel rod works great for this, glue a piece of felt (or of piece of velcro loops, my personal favorite) on the end that rests on the top, and glue the other end to the bottom of the pickguard as close to the new pickup as possible. From there gravity will hold it in place from the weight of the pickup.

 

Post a closeup pic the body of your 125 and let me see the pickguard configuration and mounting supports. I'm assuming it has a standard LP type raised fingerrest. Sorry I'm not more familiar with the ES-125 model.

 

It looks like I'm about 300 miles south of you, straight down I-55. This could all be done in my shop in a few hours (including pattern cutting a repro pickguard). If your ever in the area.......I just finished a new pickguard project on my L-5 (I had the original autographed by a couple of big time jazz guys), and are about to start another for one of my old Silvertones. I'm getting a pretty good collection of pickguard patterns, but don't have one for a 125 yet.

[Ignatius]

Post a closeup pic the body of your 125 and let me see the pickguard configuration and mounting supports. I'm assuming it has a standard LP type raised fingerrest. Sorry I'm not more familiar with the ES-125 model.

 

It looks like I'm about 300 miles south of you' date=' straight down I-55. This could all be done in my shop in a few hours (including pattern cutting a repro pickguard). If your ever in the area.......I just finished a new pickguard project on my L-5 (I had the original autographed by a couple of big time jazz guys), and are about to start another for one of my old Silvertones. I'm getting a pretty good collection of pickguard patterns, but don't have one for a 125 yet. [/quote']

Hey L5Larry--

 

As Bogie says at the end of Casablanca, "This sounds like the beginning of a beautiful relationship." I'll try to post some pictures this weekend, and after that, you and I can move to PM to talk about details. I don't know about you, but I always forget that some people on the forum actually live close to me! It would be great to forward work to another member of the forum.

 

Ignatius