Help! CS356 going out of tune

[Snoopkurty]

I recently bought a new CS356 and love guitar but I have a hard time keeping it in tune. It has the Bigsby so I quit using it to see if that was the problem but it still goes out. Does anybody else have this problem? Could it be the tulip tuners? Can you tighten up the Bigsby so it stiffins or returns to the position or stays in the same place. Its driving me crazy retuning it every 5 minutes.

[Raptor]

There is nothing wrong with the tuners that Gibson uses. Bigsbys can be harder to keep in tune, but you seem to be retuning more than usual for that to be the problem unless you are using the Bigsby an awful lot and really hard. Are the strings going flat or sharp? To be honest it sounds like the strings were not stretched properly when it was last strung. It could also be binding in the nut slots, or burrs on the saddles, although if the guitar is plekked then the nut should not be the problem either. Have you changed the string guage by any chance? What kind of strings are you using? First I would stretch each string. Just grab the string and pull up on it, pulling it away from the fretboard. Be careful on your treble strings if you have never done this before (you can break them until you get your touch just right). Then tune the guitar to pitch, stretch them again and then check them with your tuner. Re-tune and stretch at least once more, then check them and re-tune. You should do this 2-3 times. Then try it and see if it holds tune any better. There could be a myriad of things causing it. If stretching them helps, but doesn't get rid of it totally, try a different brand of strings, or even a new set. Some guitars, don't like certain brands of strings, no hard rule or reason why, but sometimes some strings just don't seem to work on a particular guitar.

If the strings are going sharp, then they are most likely binding on something, either in the nut or on a bridge saddle. Again, the first thing to do would be to change the strings and make sure you have the same guage as it came with from the factory. People often forget that the nut slots are cut to fit a certain size of string. Going up one size usually is not a problem, but going up two or more can cause them to bind in the nut. When you restring it, put some lubricant in the nut slots and on the bridge saddles. You can buy stuff especially for this like Nutsauce, or just rub a graphite pencil lead in the nut slots and over the saddles. Remember to stretch the strings when you put the new ones on. If it still happening, take it back to the shop and have them check it out for you and do a set-up. Good luck, and let us know how you make out.

[Snoopkurty]

Thaks for the reply Raptor. First, I stopped using the Bigbsy altogether to see if this was the problem, didn't matter. The strings seem to be going flat most often. I did strech the the strings alot (I've been playing a Strat for 30+ years and ALLWAYS strech the strings out first). The first thing I did when I got the guitar was restring it with D'Addario XL's .009 - .042 ( I think the guitar came with .010s). Also and probably most important I bought the guitar from an UNAUTHORIZED dealer on Ebay. I'm positive its not a counerfit, but it might be a second ( the Bigsby does not have the black paint on the tailpeice, everyone that I've seen does). The Pre-Pack check list was not filled out, so it probably was not properly set-up. Do you know any authorized dealers in the Cleveland-Alron area? The batteries are dead in my camera or I would post a pic (will do after they recharge). Your help is appreciated. I know buying from an unauthorized dealer is not the best idea, but the the price was right (or so I thought).

[Raptor]

Hey Snook. You rarely know the experience level of the person you are replying to, so I try to start with the simplest things first. You can call them at 1-800-4-GIBSON and they will tell you the nearest one, or send an e-mail to service@gibson.com, or go to http://www.gibson.com/Dealers/ and find one there. If you call and give them the serial number they can also tell you if it comes up in their system as your guitar. This will help with the counterfeit worries. The string size should be fine, usually only going larger cause binding. Gibson hasn't sold seconds since the early 1980's and they are stamped with either a '2' or 'second' on the back of the headstock under the serial number. I wonder if the bigsby was installed by someone other than the factory i.e. someone bought it, added the Bigsby and didn't do it properly? The tuners are good tuners and 99% of the time there is nothing wrong with them, and even more rare is that it would be more than one all at once. There are other rare issues, like a bad neck (green wood) or other structural issues, but those need a luthier/tech to check and confirm. At this point, I think you have done any, and everything I could suggest. So I think having it looked at is your best bet. If they were going sharp, I would say check the bridge saddles for burrs or lube the nut slots, but going flat....something else is the problem. Let us know what you learn about it. Best of luck mate.

[ES345]

Snook, i have a 356, and some of them came with black on the bigsby and i have seen pictures of a few that didn't have black on them. I think you said you are using 9-42's, having your guitar setup one time by a good tech, will probably put your mind at ease and take care of your tuning issues, in this process he may find nut, bigsby, saddle issues etc., but dont be surprised if he recommends a heavier gauge string. i have all my bigsby equipped guitars with 11-51 either gibson flat wires or d'addario chromes, imho this not only helps tone but also tuning stability' i would suggest heavier guage strings. It is not uncommon to have to tweak a bigsby guitar more often, if i am recording, with or without a bigsby i check my tuning between songs, and it might be out a little but while they are pretty stable, they do go out more easily than a guitar with a stop tail and again this depends on the amount of use.

 

 

 

[Snoopkurty]

Thanks fo rthe info, I definately am going to take the guitar in this weekend to a tech and have it set-up and give it the once over. I'm sure heavier gage strings would give better tone and stability being a semi hollow, but I've been using 009s since the ice age on my electrics, its going to take awhile to get uded to. I'll let you know when I get it back how its doing.

[ES345]

Snook,

 

Beautiful 356, i am a sunburst guy at heart.

 

 

 

peace

[Snoopkurty]

Well, I got my 356 back from the tech last and its much better. He recommended a grafite nut and saddles to eliminate the binding of the strings and it did the trick. I also went with .010s for strings fro a more ressonate sound and that helped too. The only problem I'm still having is the Bigsby (what a piece of ****). I have the guitar hooked up to a strobe tuner and whenever you use the whammy bar it doesen't return to same position. If you nudge it up or down just a tap it'll find its way back to perfect tune, but just playing it doesn't go back exactly to the correct position. The tech tightened it up and greased it to help smooth it out but said there is not any real adjustment on it. I have a 69' Strat and I can jam the hell out of the tremolo and it stays in tune just fine. I guess I should have just bought the CS356 with the stop tailpiece instead. If anyone knows any tricks or adjustment for the Bigsby please let me know or I'll have weld it in place (just joking).

[MarksGuitars]

Hello, a couple of thoughts on the Bigsby that might help. Under the spring (in the cup) there may be a white nylon washer. I have found that removing the white washer and replacing the 7/8" spring with a 1" spring does wonders for tuning. The guitar seems to settle more accurately back to the starting point. You can get these on ebay for about $10 in gold chrome or nickel. Also with the B7 model (the one on your guitar) the roller bar is design to put more tension on the strings. However check to see that the strings arent binding on the edge of the Tune-o-matic before heading down under the bar. This may not be the case but worth an look. On my Les Paul I bought a replacement tune-o-matic and cut channels with a dremel to let the strings clear. Also I used Graphtek saddles on the bridge. I use 11's on most of my Bigsby equipped guitars but continue to use 10's with the Bigby on my Les Paul with very good results. Anyway hope this is helpful.

[geochem1st]

My experience with bigsby's are just understanding the nature of the beast. They are meant for just true vibrato/tremolo effects, no Hendrix style dive bombing here. They strat trem is a better designed unit, but the older models go out of tune as well. Unless you have a Floyd Rose setup your safe, remember we are talking '50's technology here. On the plus side I feel that the added mass that the bigsby gives helps sustain as well.

 

I have trouble enough keeping my 61 SG Special in tune because the neck is so incredibly thin that the whole guitar can bend in your hands, but like you mentioned with the Bigsby, pull back just a tiny bit and it comes back to the sweet spot again. Its all a matter of tastes, Pete Townshend liked the SG's just for that reason, he could manipulate the pitch on power chords with his hands while playing.

 

 

R0 '60 burst, faded cherry

'61 SG Special modded

'67 SG Std w/Bigsby

[greglawrence]

I HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM NOW SOLVED...

When the guitar arrived it had been set up from the factory on some special machine with a laser or something. It wasn't bad, but I started experiencing what I thought was a tuning problem.

First thing I did was install gold Grovers. It did not help.

I put a little graphite on the nut. It still didn't help.

I took it to a local dude at a shop and he tinkered and couldn't remedy it when I was playing it live.

 

SO I TOOK IT TO A PROFESSIONAL LUTHIER IN ST. LOUIS (Rich Worthington)

I told him that I have been playing for over 20 years and with this guitar, I can't seem to keep simple open D chord in tune.

He measured the height of the frets and said, "Wow, this must have been like jumping on a trampoline!" I said, "Exactly!"

He muttered something about them being over .053 or something technical that dealt with a micrometer and he suggested the easiest thing to do was to replace the frets.

I totally freaked and told him this is a brand new guitar!

He said, alright, I'll just file them down, relevel and crown and now it plays like an absolute dream.

The height of the frets originally was kind of a cool new thang, but I was unable to hold a chord in tune as they were.

Does this sound familiar?

 

I have also noticed that the finish is starting to wear off the back of the neck from hand movement, the vol pot to this day still has an "issue" at times as well as the stock case being a cheap piece of...oh well.

<----- I wouldn't trade it for the world.

[endpin]

I believe the nut on the CS-356 is cut on the Plek machine at the same time the frets are ground. Mine looks like there was no hand touch-up to smooth it beyond the milled finish. I have been using molybdenum disulfide (a dry power lubricant) to try and free it up with some success.