Need Help identifying '44-45 Southern Jumbo

[jt]

Thanks for posting the pics. As the pics on the Gallery page of my website show (thanks for linking to it, rscott!), Banner SJs had unbound fingerboards. This guitar clearly has an L-5 fingerboard. The L-5 got that multi-ply fingerboard binding circa 1934, so the fingeboard could be a 1940s fingerbaord.

 

I doubt that it is the original fingerbaord. But, my book about Banner Gibsons will include lengthy interviews with a dozen women who worked for Gibson during WWII. One of them recounts journeying to the basement to sort though the "spare parts" to assemble a completed guitar. So, it's possible (though unlikely) Check for telltale signs of a fingerboard replacement, liike lacquer chippinng along its edge. And, get thee a black light to look for touch up.

[dcurrens]

JT,

 

You were right. There is some small chips around the area of the neck and fingerboard. It would appear to have been changed. Do you know if that will severely affect the value? Would it be worth my while to try to have and original fingerboard found and replaced. Also the fact that the tuners are different. Thanks

[jt]

Dcurrens,

 

Yes, do replace those tuners! The guitar should have open back Klusons. You can sometimes find them on eBay. In addition, Steve Kovacik usually has a good supply of tuners. Check my registry and gallery for pics of the correct tuners. Gear thickness and whether the guitar would have had single or 3-on-a-plate tuners varied thorugh the war years. You'll need to get a pretty good idea of the year of production to determine which tuners are appropriate. You can place the FON number, 2745, in our registry and compare your guitar to those on either side of it (though, Gibson did not always put the FONs in numerical order!). Also, is the neck block squared or beveled? Any guesses on whether the top is Adi or Sitka (Gibson made the switch right after the CMI acquisition sometiem in 1944). A good, closeup pic should let me or (much better!) my co-author, Willi Henkes, determine the wood.

 

Now, for that fingerboard ... yes, it represents a serious hit on market value to collectors. If you could find an original, that woudl be perfect. But, I've never seen one available. The remainder of the guitar woudl have had to have been destroyed, or, even less likely, someone would have had to switch out the orginal for, say, the fingerboard of an L-5. Check into getting a Braz. rosewood replacement from Gibson and have your favorite luthier do the replacement. Or, have your luthier make a replica.

 

These are very cool, very valuable guitars, and my faves. Here is my minty 1943 SJ. Your guitar is well worth finding a replacement fingerboard and tuners.

[dcurrens]

JT,

 

Thanks. Your '43 is indeed "minty". It looks almost like the day it was first sold. Did you have anything done to it? How did it come to be in such excellent condition? Are you the original owner perhaps?

 

ROTFLMAO...who would ever think about changing out a fingerboard to something else? I saw a J-45 that was trashed on ebay when a fireman stepped on it putting out a fire, but someone bought it before I could. The fingerboard was still good...but alas...not a SJ. Here's a closeup of the end block. I don't know how to tell differnt species of wood. I will still have Pioneer Music in Portland OR take a look and see what their luthier can suggest to try to get this thing back to original condition.

 

I'll keep this thread posted.

 

Thanks again

[jt]

Dcurrens,

 

Square neck block and it looks to be poplar. Thanks for posting the pic. A nice close pic of the top would be cool, too. And, when you get that new fingerboard, send me some pics and info so that I can enter your guitar on our Banner registry and in the book.

 

As for the fingerboard, ... you never know. A month or three ago, a fellow listed on eBay a neck to a 1930s J-55.

 

As for my 1943 SJ, I've not done a thing to it. I'm the third owner. The first owned it for over 60 years, during which it spent most of its time in the original case, under a bed. Yep, a true "under the bed" classic. The original owner sold it to a collector who had Bob Jones do a neck reset and then sold it to me. It's as fine a guitar as I ever encountered and I feel honored to own it.

[dcurrens]

Will do. And BTW, You're a lucky guy...that's a sweet guitar.

[dcurrens]

UPDATE: I took the guitar into Portland Music, in Portland OR, to their vintage expert. He looked it over very carefully, and noted a copule of things. One is that the fingerboard has all the marks of the work of Gibson, meaning, he thinks that the board was installed at the factory, but probably not during the war years. He siad that up through the sixties, a person could send their guitar to Gibson and have done to it almost anything they wanted.

 

He said the Grover tuners were from the sixties and that would support the idea that the fingerboard was changed at that time.

 

He noted that there were what appeared to him to be an extra amount of banding on the topside of the guitar body. He counted 8 or nine bands. And the top is a four piece, with the two outside pieces not being bookmatched.

 

At any rate, I left the guitar with him to do a more thorough investigation. I won't know anything for a few weeks, but I will be sure to let this thread know what I do find out.

 

Thanks to all for their input. This has been an enlightening experience.

 

David