Need help with Epiphone acoustic

[pmgnut]

Recently acquired an Epiphone C-25 acoustic guitar. Can anyone tell me about this model? It has 3 nylon strings and 3 steel strings. Is this a good acoustic guitar???

[theDeuce]

Here is a Google search.

 

There are a few pages with some basic info. Also found a picture of it. It seems to be a basic student classical guitar.

 

BTW, a classical guitar should not have steel core strings or solid steel strings.

 

Typically it would have 3 nylon plain strings and 3 nylon core, copper/silver wrapped strings.

 

Strings like used on steel string acoustic guitars can cause the headstock to break off from too much tension.

[pmgnut]

I thought they were steel, but it's possible that they are the copper/silver wrapped like you said. I don't know anything about guitars { except that I want to play like Pat Metheny! }. Thanks for the info!

[theDeuce]

I don't know anything about guitars { except that I want to play like Pat Metheny! }. Thanks for the info!

 

That's a worthy goal, good luck and see ya 'round here.

 

BTW, there is a thread on the electric side with tips for beginners.

[pmgnut]

Now that I have this guitar, where do I begin? Can't really afford lessons right now with the Holiday approaching. Is there some kind of guitar book " for dummies" I can get? Perhaps I'll call my friend Mr Metheny and he'll come over my house and personally teach me lol!!.

[johnl]

You might want to check out MusicMoose.org:

 

http://www.musicmoose.org/index.php?option=com_alphacontent&Itemid=32&section=7&cat=18

 

The lessons seem to list in a kind of reverse order (i.e. in the list of 27 beginner guitar lessons, number 27 appears to be the Lesson 1, so to speak). It may be a good starting point (or if you decide you'd rather play a mandolin or a banjo, they can help with those too). Good luck!

[pmgnut]

Great stuff. Thanks very much!

[YerDugliness]

Now that I have this guitar' date=' where do I begin? Can't really afford lessons right now with the Holiday approaching. Is there some kind of guitar book " for dummies" I can get? [/quote']

 

Well, actually there is a "Guitar for Dummies" book in that famous line of books....LOL! It has some pretty good stuff in it.

 

I started 38 years ago in much the same situation as you, a new guitar in my hands and no $$ for lessons. I started by getting a "Mel Bay" book (on classical guitar, which involved some very helpful tips on posture that made learning much easier and which I still use daily). The Mel Bay book also included some basic major and minor chords, so you can start to learn some songs within the first 20 pages or so.....

 

From there I started getting various song books, like folio books by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young and James Taylor and Simon and Garfunkel, you get the idea.....just make sure you look at the pages with the music and that the chord notations actually show a diagram of how the chords are fingered rather than just saying "C" or "Am" or "Dsus7", otherwise you'll be scrambling for a chord dictionary every time you run across a chord you may not know (yes, there are chord dictionaries, both online and printed).

 

Practice, practice, practice, and just when you think you'll puke if you practice any more, practice anyway. Be aware that as you are learning the fingertips on the left hand (assuming you are right handed) will get sore from being pressed against the strings. but IMHO you are lucky to have a classical guitar on which to start this journey--they are much easier on the fingers. Anyway, if you play a lot you will still get sore fingers (and with a classical guitar you will not get as heavily caloused finger tips, which can lead to yet another "learning curve" when you switch to a steel-string guitar), so when that happens give it a rest for a while, you'll be surprised how quickly the pain subsides after a day or two.

 

Perhaps the best tip I can offer is to play with others. Find others who are "better" than you (I HATE that comparative term, perhaps I should have used "more experienced"). The issue here is that while playing with others you'll notice them doing things you are not, such as using barre chords (an intermediate player's territory), and you will be motivated to learn the things you observe. It is perhaps the most effective way of improving if you cannot afford to pay for lessons.

 

If you live near areas where there are "open-mic" opportunities, go see others play onstage. You need not sign up to play, in fact I was just a spectator for over a year before I ever signed up to do a set, but once again just seeing others play can become an avenue for improvement in itself!

 

Good luck, and if you get Pat Metheny to come teach you, please fill the rest of us in on how you did that--I can't imagine any of us who would not dream of getting that to happen for us!

 

Dugly

[pmgnut]

Wow, lots of great stuff. Thanks so much. It's funny, I've been wanting a guitar now for months but have not been able to afford it untill recently when I found this epiphone at a consignment shop for 20 bucks. All along I've been listening to my favorite acoustic stuff on my cd's and saying to myself " well that note shouldn't be hard to replicate when I get a guitar " . But now when I pick up the guitar it's a completely different story!! By the way, Pat, Lyle, Steve and Antonio all said hello .....;}

[YerDugliness]

By the way' date=' Pat, Lyle, Steve and Antonio all said hello .....;}[/quote']

 

LMAO, pmgnut, really!!!!

 

Tell 'em YerDugliness says "Hey", too!

 

Thanks for the laugh, and play on, it'll happen!

 

Dugly

[TommyK]

Recently acquired an Epiphone C-25 acoustic guitar. Can anyone tell me about this model? It has 3 nylon strings and 3 steel strings. Is this a good acoustic guitar???

The C-25 is a classical guitar. And as such is not built to withstand the pull of steel strings.... any steel strings. If you new acquisiton, indeed has steels, get them off NOW!

 

Generally speaking, classical guitars are shod with three nylon monofilament and three nylon strings wound with silver or bronze, depending on the tone you are looking for. What you are calling 'steel', might very well be the nylon bass strings wound with a metalic wire. This does not increase the tension of the string, just the mass, to accomodate the lower notes. Nylon strings, even the wound ones, are stretchier than steel. If in doubt, change the strings... even if you are not in doubt, a new set are in order for any new acquisiton of a used guitar.

 

Take a trip to Frets.com. Lurk around there to learn what you can about guit tar construction and repair. It's a must for all guit tar owners, even though you don't plan to do any luthery work. It makes you a better guit tar player and guit tar consumer.

 

Above all DO NOT INSTALL STEEL STRINGS on this guit tar.

 

Enjoy your new guitar.

[pmgnut]

The bottom three strings are defenetely nylon { similiar to fishing line} . The top three { thicker strings } appear to be metallic on the outside and may be the "nylon core" that they are supposed to be. Anyway, I'm having new strings put on tonight to start fresh. Now I just need to learn something.....anything......to begin!!

[zonie]

pmgnut

For a 10 cent quickie, first you need to know how to tune your new guitar (assuming you don't have a tuning pipe to blow thru).

By now you've found that you have to place your finger right behind (towards the tuning keys) the metal frets to get a pure sound from a string.

To tune your guitar you have to start somewhere and most folks start with the "top" (lowest sounding note)" E" string.

 

By placing your finger on this E string right behind the 5th fret and picking that string. This is the note that the next string should sound like.

 

After you have adjusted this second from the top string (which is the "A" string) so that it sounds exactly like the 5th fretted E string, move your finger to the 5th fret on this "A" string and pick it.

 

The next string ( the "D" string) should sound just like the 5th fretted A string. Adjust its tension until it does.

 

Move your finger to the 5th fret on the D string and pick it. The next string down ( the "G" string) should sound just like it so adjust it so that they are the same note.

 

Now, just when you thought everything made sense, move your finger to the 4th (fourth) fret on the G string. This is the sound of the next (B) string. Yes, this is weird but it is the way it's done). Tune the B string until it sounds like the 4th fretted D string.

 

Now go to the 5th fret on the B string and pick it. This is the note for the smallest, furtherest down E string so adjust it until it sounds like the 5th fretted B string.

 

You can check to see if you goofed up somewhere by picking the low E string (the top one) and the high E string (the bottom one). The high E string should sound like a higher version of the low E string. If it does, your guitar is in tune. :)

 

Another way to do all of this is to follow this link. It will take you to a site where all you have to do is to select :6 STRING GUITAR" and then "STANDARD" and run your computer cursor across the strings on the guitar image.

http://www.tunemybass.com/

 

Although using a computer is an easy way to tune your guitar it is a good idea to memorize the 5th fret/4th fret method because many times when your playing, access to a computer will be impossible.

Have Fun

[pmgnut]

What is the sequence of the strings, from top to bottom? Is it EBGDAE??

[zonie]

Low to high or Top to Bottom the strings are: E-A-D-G-B-E

[pmgnut]

Got the new strings last night. The guy did tell me though , that the saddle is too high { making the strings sit too far away from the neck}. He said I could remove the saddle and sand a 1/8 inch off. Should I do this or leave it alone? Not sure how to remove the saddle. It is a cheap plastic saddle, not sure if it is glued in there or not. Is it worth attempting?

[TommyK]

Got the new strings last night. The guy did tell me though ' date=' that the saddle is too high { making the strings sit too far away from the neck}. He said I could remove the saddle and sand a 1/8 inch off. Should I do this or leave it alone? Not sure how to remove the saddle. It is a cheap plastic saddle, not sure if it is glued in there or not. Is it worth attempting?[/quote']

 

Well... first you have to remove your newly installed strings.. ugh! Getting them re-strung at the top will be a beach.

 

Probably something the guit tar tech should have covered when you dropped it off. New strings won't change the action. (how high the strings are). Therefore the action, if he adjudged it high after the new strings were put on, was high before he did the swap.

 

Luckly higher action isn't as big a deal on nylon strung guit tars as steels. You should probably be okay starting out with out touching the saddle as you will undoubtedly stick to the lower frets ( low pitch, near the nut and headstock). Play her as she is the have the saddle issue addressed at your next string change.

 

Then saddle should not be glued in. After removing the strings, you should just be able to pull it out.

[theDeuce]

Now' date=' just when you thought everything made sense, move your finger to the 4th (fourth) fret on the G string. This is the sound of the next (B) string. Yes, this is weird but it is the way it's done). Tune the B string until it sounds like the 4th fretted D string.[/quote']

 

change that last sentence to-

Tune the B string until it sounds like the 4th fretted G string.

 

String = No.

low E = 6 thick

A = 5

D = 4

G = 3

B = 2

high E = 1 thin

 

 

Zonie, I know you know that, and just typed it wrong! :)

[Ship of fools]

If you haven't bought a tuner yet, here is a free one for you to help you get started,

welcome to the wonderful adventure of music and don't be diwscouraged if it doesn't

go as fast as you think it should.Ship......I have been playing for over 42 years and am

still learning.

http://www.gieson.com/Library/projects/utilities/tuner/index.html

[pmgnut]

Yes I picked up a Korg chromatic tuner. Not sure if I'm useing it correctly but basically I am hitting the strings once from top to bottom and getting it as close to the zero { green light } as I can. I think if I had a better quality guitar I would not begin getting discouraged as I feel I am now. I think if I had SOME kind of starting point it would help me a lot. I play for about 30 min each night and sound like a squirrel tripping over the strings.

[YerDugliness]

I think if I had SOME kind of starting point it would help me a lot. I play for about 30 min each night and sound like a squirrel tripping over the strings.

 

Believe me, pmgnut, we ALL started out that way!

 

One suggestion I might make--go through the sequence of tuning the strings, starting with the lowest pitch (the "top" string) and proceeding through the highest pitch (the "bottom" string), and then do it at least twice more. What happens is that the guitar's neck will respond ever so slightly to the increased tension as the strings are tuned to pitch, which will throw the other strings ever so slightly out of pitch. The process of repeating the sequence three times allows you to adjust for just that occurance...usually by the time I get through the third tuning, very little adjustment has been needed.

 

I TRIED to teach a group of 7th graders some of the basics of guitar once, all they wanted to do was "posture" with it, they weren't really interested in learnig to play it. Having the guitar IN TUNE is absolutely one of the most basic of requirements...if you don't have it in tune, it will sound terrible and that will result in discoragement. There's enough to discourage us as we learn to play these boxes with 6 strings, without having to deal with the instrument being out of tune, too. It's just another skill, you'll learn it, remember that "practice makes perfect" and don't get discouraged. I had been playing my first guitar for about an hour a day for 6 months before that first "EUREKA" moment occurred. I'll never forget it, after that my progress was not only easier to achieve but I also progressed more quickly. The trick is to persevere until that first epiphany strikes, that was the most encouraging moment I ever had!

 

Dugly

[pmgnut]

Thanks for the words of encouragement, it all makes great sense and can't wait for that day. I did tune the guitar about 6 times the night I got the tuner and new strings. I was just trying to get used to the way the tuner works so I did it quite a few times. Btw, saw Russ Freeman and the Rippingtons last night....talk about a guitar player!!

[YerDugliness]

Thanks for the words of encouragement' date=' it all makes great sense and can't wait for that day. I did tune the guitar about 6 times the night I got the tuner and new strings. I was just trying to get used to the way the tuner works so I did it quite a few times. Btw, saw Russ Freeman and the Rippingtons last night....talk about a guitar player!! [/quote']

 

Yeah, new strings will stretch quite a bit, especially the classical strings you are using b/c they are nylon core (for the bass strings) and plain nylon (for the trebbles). You'll need to tune up numerous times for perhaps a week before they begin to hold a tune overnight.

 

One other important tip I forgot to mention is to always tune the string with tension on the gear. Here's what I mean--if you find a string to be too sharp, the natural urge is to tune it down until it is in pitch on the chromatic tuner. However, what happens in that case is that the tension on the machine-head's tuning gears is on the wrong side of the teeth. There is always a small amount of clearance (called "lash" in automotive circles) whenever you have two gears meshing, and if the tension is on the backside of the gear, the string can stretch out of tune ever so slightly after you "think" it is in tune due to the tendency of the gear to rotate until the correct faces of the teeth mesh. Therefore, as you are tuning a string that is too sharp, always loosen it until it is flat and then tune it "UP" until it is at the correct pitch. That way you load the correct face of the teeth on the gears and there is no "slop" (read: lash) between the gears to allow the string to get out of tune. It matters.....

 

Another tip: if you have a string that is ever so slightly sharp--as long as you have tuned the string "UP", in the manner I described above, you will already have the correct face of the teeth on the gears loaded with tension, so just reach up to the 12th fret (that is where the body joins the neck on the classical guitar, but not most steel string guitars) and lift it up about an inch, maybe 2" if the strings are new. This will stretch the string ever so slightly (keeping in mind that the tension is already on the correct face of the gear's teeth) and that stretch might just be enough to reduce the pitch of the string so that it is in tune. I always attempt this little method before I touch the tuners....the reason you reach for the string at the 12th fret is that the way a guitar is made the distance from the nut to the 12th fret is the same distance as that from the 12th fret to the saddle, so you are picking up the exact center of the string and the stretch will be equally divided along the full length of the string that way.

 

You'll learn these little tricks as you proceed along this incredible pathway....patience, grasshopper (you're probably too young to remember that TV series , but I'm not!)

 

Dugly

[pmgnut]

Too young to remember David Carradine and Kung fu? lol!! I grew up with All in the family followed by Carol Burnett on Friday nights! Thanks for all the tips!

[TommyK]

If you can find a land line phone, the dial tone is almost a perfect F#, in the US. Tune the low E string while fretting at the second fret, then tune the rest to the low E (open).