Valve Jr Trem-o-Verb

[mjlewis22]

I get paid on Friday and I'm thinking about buying a VJ to turn into a Trem-o-Verb type amp--especially now that I'm an expert on tube amp modification...lol.

 

I hope to have 6 knobs on the panel:

 

Level, Tone, Reverb, Speed, Intensity, Loudness

 

By Level I mean gain, and by Loudness I mean master volume. So a master volume (is this even applicable to SE amps?) head with tone, trem, and verb.

 

I have not combed through the vast amount of literature on this subject, due mainly to a) its vastness and B) the search engine's inability to index it properly.

 

So my main question is: Is this feasible?

 

If anyone would be willing to work with me on this, I'll be happy to document it through the process.

 

Thanks.

[Jan Vigne]

I get paid on Friday and I'm thinking about buying a VJ to turn into a Trem-o-Verb type amp--especially now that I'm an expert on tube amp modification...lol.

 

I hope to have 6 knobs on the panel:

 

Level, Tone, Reverb, Speed, Intensity, Loudness

 

By Level I mean gain, and by Loudness I mean master volume. So a master volume (is this even applicable to SE amps?) head with tone, trem, and verb.

 

I have not combed through the vast amount of literature on this subject, due mainly to a) its vastness and B) the search engine's inability to index it properly.

 

So my main question is: Is this feasible?

 

If anyone would be willing to work with me on this, I'll be happy to document it through the process.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

So you're planning on doing this all by your lonesome and from the ground up? Or, you're planning to follow someone's plans? There are modders who build the VK into reverb tanks, if they're what you will follow, then how many "knobs" you have will depend upon how they've modded the VJ.

 

Otherwise, master volume and gain sounds overly redundant to me - but I probably don't play the same way or with the same intent as you. Personally, I like the stock VJ with one "knob". If for no other reason than you can make simple decisions about what you get from the guitar/pre amp/amp/speaker. I tend not to like too many locations where things can change. First, it just dirties up the signal chain making it less responsive to the input to my ears and, second, it makes for more complications when playing or certainly when troubleshooting why no sound is coming out. I'm honestly asking you and not trying to put you on the spot, how many places do you feel are necessaary to adjust level and gain? You have how many already before you add the reverb tank? Are you intending some pedals with this also?

 

The same questions would apply to a "tone" control. What are you trying to achieve?

 

A "master" volume control is necessary on all systems otherwise the guitar and amp will operate flat out at all times. 99% of the time the "volume control" is placed at the front of the pre amp - at its main input - to control the signal voltages which then arrive at the rest of the signal chain. This isn't unique to SE amplifiers or to push/pull amps, it just is.

 

"So a master volume (is this even applicable to SE amps?) head with tone, trem, and verb. I suspect I'm being picky or just confused but "tremolo" and "reverb" are two different effects, no? You mean "reverb" and "intensity"?

[mjlewis22]

I've read your other posts on other threads. I dont think you understand quite what I'm after.

 

I almost never play clean. I also almost never play loud. This can be a problematic situation with a tube amp, which is why I want to add a "Loudness" attenuator right before the power amp section. I want to overdrive the preamp with the "Level" attenuator and then cut the signal to the power amp with the "Loudness" attenuator.

 

Tone control is optional, but basically I want it to work like a mid/treble cut, if the sound has too much presence.

 

Reverb has one control; it lets you decide how much...it sounds the way it sounds.

 

Tremolo has two controls: Speed and Intensity(Depth)...self explanatory.

 

Bascially all I'm looking to do is take a stock VJ, add a master volume, a tone control, a reverb unit, and a tremolo unit. This is all pretty standard stuff, and I will probably take reverb and tremolo DIY kits and try to retrofit them in. I'm just asking if anyone has any good suggestions on how to go about doing this, potential issues, etc.

[Jan Vigne]

I've read your other posts on other threads. I dont think you understand quite what I'm after.

 

I almost never play clean. I also almost never play loud. This can be a problematic situation with a tube amp, which is why I want to add a "Loudness" attenuator right before the power amp section. I want to overdrive the preamp with the "Level" attenuator and then cut the signal to the power amp with the "Loudness" attenuator.

 

Tone control is optional, but basically I want it to work like a mid/treble cut, if the sound has too much presence.

 

Reverb has one control; it lets you decide how much...it sounds the way it sounds.

 

Tremolo has two controls: Speed and Intensity(Depth)...self explanatory.

 

Bascially all I'm looking to do is take a stock VJ, add a master volume, a tone control, a reverb unit, and a tremolo unit. This is all pretty standard stuff, and I will probably take reverb and tremolo DIY kits and try to retrofit them in. I'm just asking if anyone has any good suggestions on how to go about doing this, potential issues, etc.

 

 

 

 

"I've read your other posts on other threads.

 

I'm not sure how to take that after my last experiences here. I'm hoping that means we have no problems.

 

 

I assume you've seen this thread; http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/42793-adding-reverb-to-the-valve-junior-3/

 

And you're wanting this to still be a head not just a reverb tank. OK.

 

I see what you're trying to do now, and you and I don't play much alike other than for the lower volume. And, as I said, I'm not much for stuff between the pick up and the pre amp. If you would, explain a few other things to me. If you want to overdive the pre amp and attentuate the power amp, why not just swap the 12AX7 to a 12AU7? Way less gain which should make it easier to accomplish what you're after. Are the volume pots on your instrument(s) not going to provide enough level and control to get the overdrive you want? And why not something more sophisticated in an outboard device (an EQ or even a Vari-tone; http://www.bigdguitars.com/varitone.html) instead of a simple tone control to only roll off the highs? I'm assuming you don't think your guitar's tone controls are sufficient? Have you thought about going to a speaker with lower sensitivity?

[fuse]

If you are thinking about analog, tube driven, spring tank, like a Fender.....not sure you are going to be able to implement that with the existing PT or in the space available. There may be some type of digital reverb you can install....I don't know. If you are wanting extra gain, and do not play clean at all, verb might be a problem anyway.

Weber sells a SS tremolo kit that might work for you......

https://taweber.powweb.com/store/modkits.htm#vibe

 

Good Luck

[mjlewis22]

The point of this exercise is for me to build something and learn. If I wanted the best trem-o-verb deal going, I'd buy an amp made in Petaluma, CA and roll on.

 

My roomate says if I dont put tube reverb and tube trem in then it doesnt count.

[Jan Vigne]

The point of this exercise is for me to build something and learn. If I wanted the best trem-o-verb deal going, I'd buy an amp made in Petaluma, CA and roll on.

 

My roomate says if I dont put tube reverb and tube trem in then it doesnt count.

 

 

 

So the point is to learn to build something that's not all that good? Seems a waste of money and time. Not giving you a hard time, just saying given the stated goals played against the baseline VJ as your starting point with the amount of surgery required, the start and finish points don't seem to jibe. I'm all for learning but learning from success usually beats learning from not so successful.

 

I assume one of my neighbors might have wanted me to paint my house their favorite color or plant their favorite tree in a different spot in the front yard. They're not paying my mortgage so their opinion doesn't influence my decisions. When's your roommate get paid?

[Jan Vigne]

Do your plans include "improving" the stock circuitry or just making these additions to the circuitry?

[mjlewis22]

After the 4th pitcher of PBR is was determined that this "challenge"-and thats purely what it is-was not going to be considered to be complete if the final product was not all tube.

 

My original plan was to try and find solid-state verb and trem kits and retrofit them into the existing circuitry, which seemed simple enough. After the aforementioned discussion the new plan was to add tube verb and trem instead.

 

***Unfortunately I'm not sure this is even possible without quite a bit of monetary investment and major surgery--which is the question I was trying to answer in the first place. (Thanks Fuse, for constructive feedback) In the case that I wanted to go full tube, I might as well design it from the ground up with that intention. Its just that at this time, I lack the knowledge to pull it off--maybe.

 

Some light literature review suggests that these things are possible, so I'm kind of at a loss for how to proceed. It seems that adding a master volume and tone to the existing circuitry are fairly straightforward, so I'll likely start there. When I feel adventurous enough, I'll work on the Trem-o-Verb part.

 

Thanks

[mtheory]

Far be it for me, self-described modaholic, to discourage you from this, but I have to say that, based upon what you're looking to do, you'd be better off building a kit from scratch that's designed to do what you're looking for, than to guess at a redesign of your Vjr. In a guitar amp, everything matters, so changing one thing CAN have a dramatic effect in the entire amp, and it's not always favorable. What you're talking about is introducing an entire array of significant changes to a previously designed amp, and you really have no way of knowing how any of those changes will affect the amp in general, let alone what the combined effect will be, and I wouldn't consider a novice to be properly armed to tackle and resolve potential pitfalls and troublesome issues that will almost certainly arise. A simple lossy tone stack and a master volume are simple to implement, and work fine on the Vjr., but the reverb and trem are likely to cause you problems.

 

A kit would give you the experience you're seeking, but would have you building from a design that's known to work. That's my $.02. Although, implementing SS reverb and trem circuits wouldn't be a big deal, if you did decide to go that route. If you were to insist upon modding your Vjr for verb and trem, that's the path I'd suggest.

 

Btw, reverb is pretty much useless on a guitar amp (my opinion!), and vibro champs have outstanding tremolo, fwiw!