Roosto7 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 If the seller has a price of $10,000.00 on the guitar, for what price should the buyer try to purchase the guitar? When buying guitars at this level, should the buyer always have an experienced luthier look at the guitar first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfox14 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 If the seller has a price of $10,000.00 on the guitar, for what price should the buyer try to purchase the guitar? When buying guitars at this level, should the buyer always have an experienced luthier look at the guitar first? That price is a bit high, but it is a pretty rare guitar. What condition is it in? Can you post some pix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 A full response to these questions would take about three hours to type, but let me try to hit some bullet points. The price is way out of line. These guitars sell for between $5-7K. There have been recent auctions on e-bay where Byrdlands went unsold at $6-7.5K. There really is no "golden era" of this type of Gibson archtop, so the '59 date does not add to the value. These guitars are basically made the same way today as they were made then. The only "premium" feature a '59 MIGHT have is "Patent Applied For" pickups, and then only if you believe the MYTH. The dollar value of these guitars is solely governed by condition, originality, and playability, not year of manufacture. As the design and construction of an archtop guitar has more in common with a violin than any other type of guitar, it is hard to find experts. Most guitar techs and even "vintage" guitar dealers know very little about them. I believe I wrote up an inspection checklist for another member here a few years ago, I'll see if I can find it and re-post it. Edit: Unless the seller is willing to deal at a reasonable price, the rest is moot. I would talk price first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 The price is way out of line. These guitars sell for between $5-7K. There have been recent auctions on e-bay where Byrdlands went unsold at $6-7.5K. NONE OF WHICH WERE PRE-1965, LET ALONE PRE-1960. There really is no "golden era" of this type of Gibson archtop, so the '59 date does not add to the value. These guitars are basically made the same way today as they were made then. The only "premium" feature a '59 MIGHT have is "Patent Applied For" pickups, and then only if you believe the MYTH. The dollar value of these guitars is solely governed by condition, originality, and playability, not year of manufacture. Total nonsense. In the VINTAGE GIBSONS forum, of all places, this guy totally fabricates a world where there is no Gibson golden era, and no special market for wonderful vintage Gibson guitars (which has existed for DECADES). Just brilliant. You can argue that the old guitars play no better, sound no better, etc. That's your opinion, and that's fine. You can not argue that they have not been recognized for many years as special, and brought premium prices as a result. The market is down in this tough economy, so yes, the asking price may be on the high side right now. If you look at completed auctions for vintage Byrdlands from that period, you'll see that people are still pricing them in the $10K to $12K range. No, they didn't sell due to the tough economy, but right or wrong, people are still trying to achieve the sort of prices that had been established before the economic downturn. They at least recognize the reality that existed in the vintage guitar market, which Larry pretends was not real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 And right here on the Gibson forums (best Ed Sullivan voice), you have the problem with the "vintage" guitar market: A buyers opinion, and a sellers opinion, and nary the twain shall meet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 And right here on the Gibson forums (best Ed Sullivan voice), you have the problem with the "vintage" guitar market: A buyers opinion, and a sellers opinion, and nary the twain shall meet. Not sure what you mean by that, since activity has continued (albeit with some downturn in prices) and the twain has continued to meet between buyers and sellers in the vintage guitar market. In fact, the OP seemed interested in the possibility of buying this '59 Byrdland. He seemed to be asking about how to negotiate/haggle. At any rate, opinions are fine, Larry, and I have absolutely no problem with yours (more vintage guitars for the rest of us who prefer them). It's your occasional distortion of history and reality that I find bothersome. And by the way, and if this '59 has a natural finish, then it should command a higher price than a sunburst, all else being equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfox14 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 And right here on the Gibson forums (best Ed Sullivan voice), you have the problem with the "vintage" guitar market: A buyers opinion, and a sellers opinion, and nary the twain shall meet. I don't think there is a problem in the vintage guitar market. Maybe it's just that prices have adjusted down a bit due to the economy, but vintage guitars still command some very impressive dollar figures outpacing the stock market & real estate in terms of appreciation. Buyers and sellers are not going to agree, but that's par for the course. It would take the fun out of it if both sides agreed on everything. I totally agree with Jim. A 1959 Byrdland should be more expensive than a new one or even a 1960s version, because they are not the same thing. Why should there be an exclusion for vintage archtops vs. semi-hollow or solid body guitars. The mid to late 50s was a very special era in the history of Gibson for a multitude of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurstOrBust Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I tend to agree with Jim, too. I own both "modern" and vintage guitars. If and when it comes time to sell, the vintage guitars have held their value (and actually increased). All my opinion, of course. I have to say, though, the best-sounding flat-top guitar that I've ever played or heard is my '45 LG-2. Phenomenal. Haven't heard anything "modern" that comes close. I have an SG/LP with PAFs, and it's no MYTH. Wondering if you, Larry, have had a personal bad experience with a guitar sporting PAFs. I also have a '52 Les Paul that blows away any modern LP that I've played. Personal decision of mine, but I'm selling many of my modern guitars and limiting my future selections to the vintage market. If you like modern guitars, take a peek at my website and buy, buy, buy! ;) BTW, I've also been looking for a Byrdland, but prefer the sharp Florentine cut version. Perhaps myself and the OP can commiserate? I did see a late 50's Byrdland at Chicago Music Exchange. Is that the one you are speaking of? Tricone Sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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