Questions

[jej2]

Hello everyone,

 

Jejpirate77.........in North Carolina.

Have an old Gibson I want to post a few pictures of .....and ask for a little verification or thoughts regarding this guitars approximate date of production.

First......this old guitar I can remember from as far back as 66-67. My Dad had a jewelry store and sold Gibsons in those days. His memory is fading about a number of things.......but he really doesn't remember exactly how he acquired the guitar. I speculate he took it in trade for a small amount. The guitar even as I first remember was "well played"......and well worn. Whoever had it put on a large (home made) leather pickgaurd. I've had an older guitar guy tell me that Lester Flatt had done that to one of his guitars. Or possibly, just trying to mimic the oversize pickguards of the middle to late 50's onward.

The guitar sat in the attic off my teenage bedroom for years. From 1969 until this past fall. So it's story up until then a sad one. A few years ago I went through the Gibson facility in Nashville. It opened my eyes to guitars again. So, I pulled this old guitar out. A luthier has repaired a lower bout (side at bottom) crack and a cracked X brace, reglued a few loose finger braces, did level and set up........and replaced tuner buttons.

The old leather pick guard carefully peeled off.....and made a new tear drop appropriate pick guard.

I took a year's lessons as a kid........and I'm learning all over again. That's going well so far.

And the sound from this old guitar is amazing....!

Other than the work done late fall this year...........we couldn't see that anything else has ever been done.

The FON clearly stamped inside is 3286. Only the four digits...........

There are 19 frets.........and the bridge is rectangular. Back and sides clearly mahogany....and sitka top...neck mahogany. Tapered head stock.

So, while I have limited personal knowledge, my research has led me to believe 1948-1949.

 

Thoughts.......

 

jejpirate77

[JimR56]

I'm not a flat-top guy, but I believe a FON of 3286 should be 1950.

[jej2]

I'm not a flat-top guy, but I believe a FON of 3286 should be 1950.

Thank you for your thoughts. I initially thought 1950 as well. Found evidence that the rectangular

bridge probably predated the 1950 model. But who knows. Tapered headstock is pre 1952 I'm reading...and rectangular bridge instead of belly up seems to date it before 1950. Not sure about the FON dating. I'm waiting on Gibson to help with some direction there.

But I KNOW there are LOTS of folks out there who have a passion about this sort of thing. I've found myself quite interested too........and have learned a great deal over the last few months.

This old guitar means more simply because it was a part of our household for years...!

[TM]

Thank you for your thoughts. I initially thought 1950 as well. Found evidence that the rectangular

bridge probably predated the 1950 model. But who knows. Tapered headstock is pre 1952 I'm reading...and rectangular bridge instead of belly up seems to date it before 1950. Not sure about the FON dating. I'm waiting on Gibson to help with some direction there.

But I KNOW there are LOTS of folks out there who have a passion about this sort of thing. I've found myself quite interested too........and have learned a great deal over the last few months.

This old guitar means more simply because it was a part of our household for years...!

 

 

I owned a similar rectangle bridge J50 and a J45. This is the first variation, with the rectangle bridge, of the post war J50. These bridges were short lived. No one knows the exact date. I put these as you did 47, 48. My FON was 3284.

 

Bob Dylan played a script only J50, it is well pictured with him, recorded. No one has seen one in years, at least I thought I saw one, well one turned up on this forum. I need to download that pic.

 

These are superb guitars, better I think than the sunburst finished guitars. They are very lightly built and the J50s have a pretty light finish, the J45 are pretty thick. Lovely necks also. I sold mine and the J45, but I've got others since.

 

I would look around for a better guard, more traditional Gibson. I can find some pics of mine if you would like.

 

Terry

[TM]

I owned a similar rectangle bridge J50 and a J45. This is the first variation, with the rectangle bridge, of the post war J50. These bridges were short lived. No one knows the exact date. I put these as you did 47, 48. My FON was 3284.

 

Bob Dylan played a script only J50, it is well pictured with him, recorded. No one has seen one in years, at least I thought I saw one, well one turned up on this forum. I need to download that pic.

 

These are superb guitars, better I think than the sunburst finished guitars. They are very lightly built and the J50s have a pretty light finish, the J45 are pretty thick. Lovely necks also. I sold mine and the J45, but I've got others since.

 

I would look around for a better guard, more traditional Gibson. I can find some pics of mine if you would like.

 

Terry

 

Here is a pic. Also great story about your father selling Gibson products through his jewelry store. You must look around for any old advertising related materials. Spanns Guide to Vintage Gibson, recently published has a list of Gibson dealers through out the country through the years. Tell me a name and location and I will look it up.

 

 

 

That was one fine sounding and playing guitar, great open sound you don't always get in a Vintage Gibson.

[jej2]

Here is a pic. Also great story about your father selling Gibson products through his jewelry store. You must look around for any old advertising related materials. Spanns Guide to Vintage Gibson, recently published has a list of Gibson dealers through out the country through the years. Tell me a name and location and I will look it up.

 

 

 

That was one fine sounding and playing guitar, great open sound you don't always get in a Vintage Gibson.

[jej2]

Terry,

Thank you for your information. The more I looked and learned, the rectangular bridge seemed to be an important feature in dating this guitar. Also, the FON does seem to put it around 1948 or so according to what I've found. But, I've read Gibson was thrifty...and tended to use what was on hand when building them. I've sent pictures and info to Gibson. Will be interesting to see what they have to say. The fact that you've had one of the same age sure helps. The FON numbers are close....!

This guitar is amazingly light and produces a great sound. The luthier made the pick guard.....and while noty favorite, it's grown on me. Not opposed to changing it though if you can give me some ideas on where to find something more correct .

Thanks also for the pic.....I like the pick guard pictured.

Jej2

[j45nick]

Terry,

Thank you for your information. The more I looked and learned, the rectangular bridge seemed to be an important feature in dating this guitar. Also, the FON does seem to put it around 1948 or so according to what I've found. But, I've read Gibson was thrifty...and tended to use what was on hand when building them. I've sent pictures and info to Gibson. Will be interesting to see what they have to say. The fact that you've had one of the same age sure helps. The FON numbers are close....!

This guitar is amazingly light and produces a great sound. The luthier made the pick guard.....and while noty favorite, it's grown on me. Not opposed to changing it though if you can give me some ideas on where to find something more correct .

Thanks also for the pic.....I like the pick guard pictured.

Jej2

 

With that bridge and that FON, the guitar is almost certainly from late 1948. Shortly after this, the rectangular bridge that had been standard on the J 45/50 since it was introduced in 1942/'43 was replaced with the belly-up bridge that was to be the standard bridge, off and on, until today. I have a J-45 with FON 3644 (I've owned it for 45 years) and it has the belly-up bridge. I believe the bridge switch was probably made in late 1948.

 

The J-45 and J-50 are exactly the same guitar except for the natural top and lighter-colored stain on the back and sides of the J-50. Contrary to earlier statements here, the finish on the J-45 and J-50 should be of the same thickness. Both used filler stains on the mahogany--just different colors--and the dye used in spraying the sunburst top does not add to the thickness of the top finish coats. Generally speaking, both guitars get the same amount of finish whether sunburst or natural. And then a fair amount gets buffed off in the final finishing after spraying is completed.

[jej2]

With that bridge and that FON, the guitar is almost certainly from late 1948. Shortly after this, the rectangular bridge that had been standard on the J 45/50 since it was introduced in 1942/'43 was replaced with the belly-up bridge that was to be the standard bridge, off and on, until today. I have a J-45 with FON 3644 (I've owned it for 45 years) and it has the belly-up bridge. I believe the bridge switch was probably made in late 1948.

 

The J-45 and J-50 are exactly the same guitar except for the natural top and lighter-colored stain on the back and sides of the J-50. Contrary to earlier statements here, the finish on the J-45 and J-50 should be of the same thickness. Both used filler stains on the mahogany--just different colors--and the dye used in spraying the sunburst top does not add to the thickness of the top finish coats. Generally speaking, both guitars get the same amount of finish whether sunburst or natural. And then a fair amount gets buffed off in the final finishing after spraying is completed.

J45nick......

Thanks so much for your information. It directly confirms the last research I'd done myself. Many thanks for taking a bit of your time to let me know what you believe. With you having a FON so close and Terry also having had one so close.......and with what you both have had to say about the rectangular bridge..........looks like it is a 1948..........! Not sure exactly why it matters to me.....but it feels good nailing down the year of production. Again, I do appreciate your effort in shedding further light on it.

 

jejpirate77 (jej2)