bluezguy Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 My last brand new ES-335 Dot Re-Issue was purchased in 1993. Then, I paid $1800.00 for it. It was a tobacco burst color and came with a hardshell case. I had to sell it back in 2003 due to my own personal failing economy. It is time for me to get another 335 but I want it as close as I can get to what I once had. Shopping around recently, I notice these guitars coming from 'Memphis'. I don't believe 'Memphis' existed back in 1993 as a 335 production facility. What is the difference between a Nashville or 'non-Memphis' made 335 and a 'Memphis' made 335?? Is it a more affordable line or something? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadhog96 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Nashville models are made closer to the original specs and cost a good deal more. They are not 100% correct but closer than the Memphis models. They are both made with the same type of construction and wood. Nothing wrong with Memphis guitars now days, the workmanship is very good. If your looking for a guitar that resembles an original 50 or 60 335 then you pay more for an Historic Nashville made guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Some people (myself included) believe that the Nashville-built ES 335 is more consistent in build quality than the Memphis-built version of the same guitar. You pay a significant price premium for this, however. If you have the opportunity to play a bunch of Memphis-built ES 335's at a store, you may walk away with one that is as good as a Nashville-built guitar. If you have to buy sight unseen, without playing it, you have a better chance to get a great guitar by buying one from the Nashville shop. I believe that the only ES 335 built by the Nashville shop right now is the '63 Historic. I have a Nashville-built '59 Historic ES 335 (built in 2009), and it's a great instrument. You pays your money, and you takes your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I can't comment on the quality of one vs the other, but to me the Nashville 335's were/are great. The Memphis ones are supposed to be an upgrade, as in more expensive versions and obviously they cost more to buy. What sucks is that Gibson is not making the standard production versions at Nashville anymore, so a new 335 is more expensive to buy. This has affected the cost of used Nashville 335's from what I can see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluezguy Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 Thanks for yer replies. It's kinda what I thought. I've not been happy with the dozen or so 335s' I've tried out at a number of Sam Ashes & GCs. I don't even bother trying out any 'Historics' simply because I can't afford one nor do I want one to play out on stage due to the 'wear' factor. I'd be more inclined to leave 'er at home on display and pick 'er up when feelin' down . Not being a collector, I just really need the meat & potatoes version of what I would consider being a Nashville standard build like my original 1993 that started this topic. Oh well, I guess it's just a matter of time & keeping my eyes open for used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I can't comment on the quality of one vs the other, but to me the Nashville 335's were/are great. The Memphis ones are supposed to be an upgrade, as in more expensive versions and obviously they cost more to buy. What sucks is that Gibson is not making the standard production versions at Nashville anymore, so a new 335 is more expensive to buy. This has affected the cost of used Nashville 335's from what I can see. Stein, I think you've got this backwards. The "standard" ES 335 is built by the Memphis shop. The "upgraded" ES 335's are the Historic '59 and '63 versions, which were (and in the case of the '63, are) built by the Nashville shop. The Memphis shop builds its own version of both the '59 and '63, as well, but they don't carry the "Historic" designation, and vary somewhat in construction details and hardware from the Nashville Historics. The Gibson website doesn't tell you which ES 335's are built by which shop, but you can deduce it by the price. For example the "'63 ES 335 Block", with a list price of $6845, is almost certainly the only Nashville-built ES 335 currently listed on the Gibson website. The last time the '59 Historic was listed--definitely a Nashville product, as I have one--the list price was also $6845. The Gibson site shows a "'59 Dot Reissue", with a list price of $5649. While this is a much higher price than the other Memphis-built versions of the ES 335, it is well below the $6845 list of the Nashville guitars, including the '59 Historic. When you can find them from dealers--and there are a few Nashville '59s and '63s at high-end Gibson dealers--the "street" price is about $4750. By comparison, a standard, gloss-finish Memphis built ES 335 has a list price of about $3890, and a typical dealer selling price of just under $3K. It really is unfortunate that Gibson clouds the issue so much by not specifying on their website which ES 335 is built in which shop. The only way to know with absolute certainty is to look on the orange label inside. The labels from the two shops are identical, except that guitars from the Memphis shop say "Memphis, Tennessee, USA" at the bottom of the label, while the label in a Nashville-built instrument will say "Nashville, Tennessee, USA" on the bottom. As I said before, you pays your money, and you takes your choice. Both the Nashville and Memphis shops are "Gibson Custom" shops, so you can't tell by that designation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Thanks for yer replies. It's kinda what I thought. I've not been happy with the dozen or so 335s' I've tried out at a number of Sam Ashes & GCs. I don't even bother trying out any 'Historics' simply because I can't afford one nor do I want one to play out on stage due to the 'wear' factor. I'd be more inclined to leave 'er at home on display and pick 'er up when feelin' down . Not being a collector, I just really need the meat & potatoes version of what I would consider being a Nashville standard build like my original 1993 that started this topic. Oh well, I guess it's just a matter of time & keeping my eyes open for used. Used Nashville-built Historics show up periodically, priced at about $2800-3500, depending on condition. I took about three or four months to find mine, and paid about $3750 for it. It was six months old, and showed no evidence of having been played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Yes, I see this difference between "current" 335's and place of manufacture. And good post, btw. What I was referring to was the regular every-day production BEFORE the opening of the Memphis factory. THAT 335 is no longer made there, and has been "upgraded" to being somewhat of a "custom shop" model by making it in Memphis rather than Nashville. In other words, what is NOW the cheapest model is a "custom shop" Memphis version, even as it is still what is now considered the "standard" production model. The less expensive production "standard" model made by Gibson USA no longer exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Yes, I see this difference between "current" 335's and place of manufacture. And good post, btw. What I was referring to was the regular every-day production BEFORE the opening of the Memphis factory. THAT 335 is no longer made there, and has been "upgraded" to being somewhat of a "custom shop" model by making it in Memphis rather than Nashville. In other words, what is NOW the cheapest model is a "custom shop" Memphis version, even as it is still what is now considered the "standard" production model. The less expensive production "standard" model made by Gibson USA no longer exist. Thanks for the clarification. As we all know, Gibson doesn't make this easy to figure out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sok66 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Making it more confusing, all component parts for the 335 are made in Memphis, then some are shipped to Nashville for final assembly. Side by side a Memphis '59RI, for example, may be indistinguishable from a Nashville other than what's written on the label inside, and the price of course. As has been the case with 335s since they were first released to the public in the late 50s, there is significant variability from one to another. It pays to handle & play them before you buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincentw Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 clear as mud. Memphis is building 99% of 335s today. The one I used to own was awesome. So was my Memphis made 339. I don't quite understand all the fuss over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Memphis is building 99% of 335s today. That's it in a nutshell, but for some people, the Nashville label still means something special. If you read the complaints here about QC on the Memphis-built guitars--and look at the photos that accompany them--that might tell you something about what the fuss is about. I know Gibson builds a lot of guitars, the overwhelming percentage of which are probably beautifully done. However, an unhappy customer with a justifiable complaint about quality control should be any manufacturer's worst nightmare. In the case of guitars, a reputation for consistent quality is worth its weight in gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluezguy Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 That's it in a nutshell, but for some people, the Nashville label still means something special. If you read the complaints here about QC on the Memphis-built guitars--and look at the photos that accompany them--that might tell you something about what the fuss is about. I know Gibson builds a lot of guitars, the overwhelming percentage of which are probably beautifully done. However, an unhappy customer with a justifiable complaint about quality control should be any manufacturer's worst nightmare. In the case of guitars, a reputation for consistent quality is worth its weight in gold. Let 'em have it!!!! They also need to go back to Customer Support 101 class. I've been using their guitars since the late 60's and when for the first time I ask for a replacement FirebirdV pickup because mine got damaged, they said "HELL NO" ... they actually told me to go to one of the boutique pickup guys for a replacement. Everyone of my Gibsons in the past 40 years have been brand new and registered with them when purchased yet this was the treatment I got. BTW, that's more than 15 of their LPs, 335s, SGs and Firebirds. Oh well ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sok66 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Frankly, the only way to resolve all this is to move production back to Kalamazoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budglo Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I just bought a new 335 plain gloss and the factory setup was not the greatest.It was too high and the bridge was screwed as high as it could go .Once it was properly set up it was a different guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluezguy Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Thanks Folks ... I now can put my fears to rest. I just bought (on layaway) a brand new, NOS, Dot-ReIssue Figured Top at a GC circa 2006. This puts all my negative issues about Memphis versus Nashville to rest. You can check out another post about this matter titled 'Your opinions on PRICE of 2006 ES-335'. I played the daylights out of this instrument for a week or so on a daily basis before I bought it. I ran it through my main amps ... a Fender Blues deVille and a Marshall Vintage Modern stack 2466. It sounded and played/felt exactly how I needed it to. The setup was superb. Due to it being a 2006 that was on display behind glass, I contacted Gibson to verify/confirm serial #s & previous registration. All investigation came out 100% positive ... so I bought it. I'll be picking it up in February. I'd just like to give you a bit of my background to qualify my statements .. until 2002, my sole source of livelihood has been that of a bar room musician doing circuits around USA, Canada, & recordings in Europe (since 1969). I've always fronted Blues-based power trios. My choice of instruments/sound has always been a critical factor since they were, in part, responsible for putting bread on my table. In my re-formed opinion - there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this Memphis made ES-335!! Happy New Year to Yaz ALL!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyWheat Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'd just like to give you a bit of my background to qualify my statements .. until 2002, my sole source of livelihood has been that of a bar room musician doing circuits around USA, Canada, & recordings in Europe (since 1969). I understand... I did the same circuit, pretty well and moved from power trios to a solo instrumental act. [You and I should get together and throw a couple of bolts and some spikes on the Bar-B, with a barbed wire salad on the side and some battery acid to wash it all down!] J/W [Oh, and BTW: here's a tip for you... On your first gig at an out-of-town biker bar, do NOT wear a black tee shirt with white lettering that says: "For a small town, this one sure has a lot of a$$holes." ... just a suggestion... ] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesjuke Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Congrats on a good find bluezguy! I've had quite a few 335s over the years and currently have tow '59 Historics. All my others have been Memphis produced. I like the fat necks of the '59 335s but have been just as content with my other 335s. Th last one I had, which I'll miss to the ends of the earth, was a '99 Memphis model and it had it big time. Great playability, feel, and tone. Enjoy the new one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyWheat Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Does anybody have an explanation for why the surface contours in the horns of current models are so different from the originals? I know it was old Kalamazoo tooling, but surely they could build a new lamination press mold that preserves this most graceful attribute of the old 330s and 335s? Just askin' J/W 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincentw Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Congrats on a good find bluezguy! I've had quite a few 335s over the years and currently have tow '59 Historics. All my others have been Memphis produced. I like the fat necks of the '59 335s but have been just as content with my other 335s. Th last one I had, which I'll miss to the ends of the earth, was a '99 Memphis model and it had it big time. Great playability, feel, and tone. Enjoy the new one! The Memphis factory did not exist in 1999. A 1999 ES-335 would have been built by Gibson USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Does anybody have an explanation for why the surface contours in the horns of current models are so different from the originals? I know it was old Kalamazoo tooling, but surely they could build a new lamination press mold that preserves this most graceful attribute of the old 330s and 335s? Just askin' J/W That's an interesting question. I pulled out my '68 and my '09-built '59 Historic, and It's really hard to make a comparison, since the plan view of the horns has changed so much over the years. The '59 Historics (and presumably the current "standard" ES 335?) have the original fat mouse ear plan view from '58-'59. My '68 has pointy ears (part of the late 60's devolution of the original shape), and a much more pronounced surface contour on the ears. Did they change the top laminate press during the evolution of the body shape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyWheat Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 That's an interesting question. I pulled out my '68 and my '09-built '59 Historic, and It's really hard to make a comparison, since the plan view of the horns has changed so much over the years. The '59 Historics (and presumably the current "standard" ES 335?) have the original fat mouse ear plan view from '58-'59. My '68 has pointy ears (part of the late 60's devolution of the original shape), and a much more pronounced surface contour on the ears. Did they change the top laminate press during the evolution of the body shape? That's what I would like to know. I had an old ('62?) ES 330 with the pointier horns and pronounced surface contour of which you speak, but I had no idea this was a later attribute... My old guitar had a nice, wide neck, but it wasn't thick through like a 50s style. There were no dating tools when I owned it back in '67-'69, so it may have been more recent than a '62 vintage. Thanks for this info. J/W 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 there are basically the 5 major ES335 models lately. 2 from the nashville CS and 3 from the memphis CS. This is nice info, but none of the links work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 That's what I would like to know. I had an old ('62?) ES 330 with the pointier horns and pronounced surface contour of which you speak, but I had no idea this was a later attribute... My old guitar had a nice, wide neck, but it wasn't thick through like a 50s style. There were no dating tools when I owned it back in '67-'69, so it may have been more recent than a '62 vintage. Thanks for this info. J/W J/W, If you are an ES fan, I strongly recommend Charlie Gelber's blog, es-335.org. It has an amazing amount of historical information on it, and provides links to other ES-related websites. I don't recall a discussion on surface countours, but he has a number of articles on horn (mouse ear) development over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyWheat Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 J/W, If you are an ES fan, I strongly recommend Charlie Gelber's blog, es-335.org. It has an amazing amount of historical information on it, and provides links to other ES-related websites. I don't recall a discussion on surface countours, but he has a number of articles on horn (mouse ear) development over the years. Thanks, Nick... I tried to post a proper thank you earlier this morning but the forum software ate it, I think. I'm tied up right now getting the house ready for the New Year's Eve Jam! Sail on up, buddy! Thank you for the additional links... the ear question has always intrugued me. J/W 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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