mystery LP

[DynoByte]

Hi All !

 

I have a Gibson Les Paul Standard that has no name or serial on it , it was purchased in Toronto back in 1982 as body only totally raw with no finish or hardware but came with a brown Gibson case with purple? interior . The neck was complete as well as bindings except the binding around the cutaway was coming loose . I took it to George Gray in Toronto in 1982 , a guitar maker well known for doing Bruce Cockburns guitars , and he fixed the binding and finished it in a beautiful tabacco sunburst . I was at first tempted to leave the guitar raw but he said if i played it with no finish , down the road I wouldn't be able to finish it as it wouldn't take . He also said it was a real Gibson, hand made, but he could not pinpoint it and also could not put the Gibson name on it . I purchased hardware for it at the same place - 2 Gibson Bill Lawrence 'true blue' poleless humbuckers (I've never seen any since or can find no info online) that are sealed at bottom with clear epoxy and the wires have no shielding , just 2 red and black wires - Gibson's the 'Crank' tuners (I have the only set I've ever seen in crome) - 3 way toggle switch and various pots , jacks & knobs , also the 2 black control cover plates . The bridge I found there is a very rare Gibson tom with nylon inserts and smooth at sides with no axel showing thru tops , I have only seen these on the Les Paul XR .

 

The neck is one piece mahogany with the wider style headstock , rosewood board with trap. inlays . I was told it could be a spare sent for warranty for the heritage 80 series and someone else told me it could be from the the '58-'60 era as some were left over raw due to low sales . I personally don't believe it's either but sure would like to know exactly what it is .

[DynoByte]

The pickups on it now are X2N's wired in parallel , the red square is a push button to activate the built in MXR distortion+ , the knobs are from the same foot pedal

 

[DynoByte]

Headstock and cover are black , no logo on either (note the 2 screw cover)

 

[DynoByte]

The top appears to be curly maple bookend , Quilted ? There is a weight hole below big e-side tailpiece .

 

The back is 3 pc laminate

 

 

[modoc_333]

in the picture, that looks like a 3 piece back.... that would mean it's not a Gibson. no way. at least not from those days. even now, they only use 2 piece backs on some things. in the 70s they used pancake bodies, but not multipiece like this.

[DynoByte]

Hi , thanks for reply . I found this digging around:

 

"The first digit of the serial is the last number of the year. Keep in mind that at least four eras of the 'Classic' have now past...

 

- First era: 'Model' on headstock w/thin binding cutaway, whitish/slightly ambered inlays

- Second era: 'Classic' on headstock, thick binding on cutaway, greenish inlays (from here on out)

- Third era: 'Classic' on headstock, thin binding in cutaway (again)

- Fourth era: 'Classic' on headstock, thin binding in cutaway, multi-piece mahogany back (Classics have had one-piece backs until now)"

 

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/3074-les-paul-classic-premium-plus-plus.html

 

Am not certain if he's right or wrong but IF it is a Gibson it must be a 4th era 'classic' ?

[Tim Plains]

in the picture' date=' that looks like a 3 piece back.... that would mean it's not a Gibson. no way. at least not from those days. even now, they only use 2 piece backs on some things.[/quote']

I remember reading that Gibson did use 3-piece bodies back in the day. MLP or LPF, can't remember.

Not saying that it's true, just that I read it somewhere.

 

DynoByte, I have no idea if that's real or fake. The positioning of the bridge & tailpiece don't look right to me, though.

[Raptor]

It would not be a 'fourth era Classic' as these are the latest ones being made. I don't think the Classic appeared until the 90's, it was first just called the LP Reissue, and that didn't appear until after Henry J bought Gibson and that is post 1982. I need to dig out a book or two to confirm the years, but it was only recently that the Classic became a multipiece back (2 pc).

It was not unusual for LPs from the Norlin era, especially the mid-late 70's to the 80's to have butcher block tops and backs. Their thoughts were by using every last scrap of wood they were saving money, also buying smaller pieces was cheaper. The nylon inserts in the TOM are not rare, Gibson switched to them in the 60's through the 70's (I don't have any reference books in front of me so I am hazy about the dates). I am in Hfx too and would love to see the guitar, you could also let the local Yorkville/Gibson rep take a look at it (Dave), and I know of one or two others who might be able to help ID it. It does sound like a real Gibson, but without seeing it in detail it is difficult to say. The lack of ID on it could mean it was stolen at some point, or could just have been a careless refin (where they didn't save or record numbers and ID). There is also someone I know in the province who used to work for Gibson making guitars, who might be able to help you. You can e-mail me about it, or go into the Cunard St MusicStop (now L&M) and ask for Brian. Then ask Brian to direct you to some of the Les Paul pros/collectors. He will help fix you up.

[DynoByte]

Thanks Raptor I'll PM you . This guitar is NOT hot or no foul play involved , I still have the separate receipts for the guitar, case & hardware . The X2N's were purchased in '95 . When I got the guitar the fretboard was white from being freshly sanded and fretted , it had not yet been oiled . George told me to oil it with selmer bore oil annually and I have , the neck and frets are still almost new condition but the binding is yellowing .

I don't believed Gibson guitars are serialized untill finished and that was the next step for this. Sanded down serials can still be detected same as a gun but I don't believe George Gray would have anything to do with that , he charged $200 for the 12 coat finish and stated he didn't have the authority to name or serialize it but it would be nice to serialize it in case it was stolen but I'd have other ways to I.D. it need be , this guitar doesn't leave the house.

 

'NUCO' was a large canadian musical instrument distributor in the '70s and maybe earlier (anyone know?) . They were suppliers for Kroth - Pearl - SoundMaster - Onyx - Legend - Moog - Gibson - Zildjain - Epiphone - Double Eagle & Lawrence . I still have their coffee cup. They went into receivership in 1982 and turned over to 'Price Waterhouse' for liquidation . 'PW' had one week to sell the entire warehouse stock @ 60% below cost . It was all sold in a week in a shop on Yonge St. near Dundas in Toronto . I do remember meeting Danny Marks there buying a Gibson Chet Atkins accoustic electric with like a plastic plug over the sound hole. He's not famous but very well known for the Toronto blues scene . The Les Paul was one of the last things to leave the store and no one there knew what it was or how long it sat in the warehouse OR why . they were just hired salesman for the liquidation . There was a Gibson Dove there and a Mini-moog synth with a gold plate on the side stating it was the 25th one made , am I ever sorry I didn't buy them both now . If I could do it again I would buy the whole store . Is the case serialized or can it be identified by other tells ? The handle didn't break untill 2006 , I'd like to put that back to original .

 

 

[DynoByte]

I did some reseach on the pancake bodies and Norlin era you guys mentioned and found this :

 

"Les Paul models in the Norlin era

 

Subsequent years brought new company ownership to the Gibson Guitar Company. During the "Norlin Era", Gibson Les Paul body designs were greatly altered, most notably, the change to the neck volute. Because the Les Paul had the reputation of having an easily broken neck joint, the volute strengthened the neck where it joined the headstock to avert breakage. To further increase the strength, the neck woods were changed from mahogany to a three-piece maple design. The LP body was changed from a one piece mahogany with a maple top into multiple slabs of mahogany with multiple pieced maple tops (also called a "pancake body').

 

In this era, as well, Gibson began experimenting with new models such as the Les Paul Recording. This model is often eschewed by guitar purists[citation needed]: considered "too full of gadgetry".[citation needed] The Recording featured low-impedance pickups, many switches and buttons, and a highly specialized cable for impedance-matching to the amplifier. Less noticeable changes included, but were not limited to, maple fingerboards (1976), pickup cavity shielding, and the crossover of the ABR1 Tune-o-matic bridge into the modern day Nashville Tune-o-matic bridge. During the 1970s, the Les Paul body shape was incorporated into other Gibson models, including the S-1, the Sonex, the L6-S, and many other experimental models."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson_Les_Paul

 

 

Is this the neck volute they're referring to ?

 

[DynoByte]

~UPDATE~ I totally forgot about this thread and would like to thank all for their input. It turns out this guitar is a Japanese "Double Eagle" which was coincidentally one of the names on the coffee cup. Tim mentioned that the bridge looked off and one of the tells is that this bridge barely has any angle, if none at all. The case does belong to the Gibson Les Paul Heritage 80 series. I've since found a replacement handle. Thanks again !